Invisapeeps 2.0

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Carolyn Hax - Erased ex-wife

Papa Bear · Senior Member

When I was 5, I was in precisely this situation. My much-older brother was Mother's from a different marriage. I didn't know this at five; I didn't ask till years later. They may have quietly agreed to not discuss it, but I certainly never missed it.

I concur that LW shouldn't take it personally. Unless the two siblings look radically different, it wouldn't be a question at this age.

I do wonder what will happen if the 5yo ever looks at his parents' wedding photos. Will he see his older sibling in attendance and wonder what the heck? That's what prompted the question for me.

bbb · Member

I don't remember when my parents told my that my 8 year older brother was my half-brother, but I do know that it was never a secretive thing. It was just a fact of life. I would think in this day and age, especially, that kids should know as early as possible.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

Why early as *possible*? I agree as early as necessary; ie don't lie. But if child never brings it up .... why go there?

SweetHomeAlabamainTexas · Member

Wow, just change the ages of the kids and that is me. I have never thought about the half-siblings to my kids knowing about me. But they have seen me, when I went to pick up my kids for a visit. I think their kids are 9 and 7.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

I'm in the "Don't lie about it, but don't hide it either" camp...

Cactus · Senior Member

The letter, at least as posted, is a little unclear to me. If the 5 year old doesn't know about the ex, who does s/he think older sibling is? A full sibling or not a sibling at all? I think it's better to be honest.

tigerlily · Guru

I was thinking the parents are presenting the 20 yr old and 5 yr old as full siblings.

I don't think it was right for the parents to tell the 20 yr old to keep it a secret or for them to lie (if they did) to say the two children are full siblings.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

tigerlily wrote:
I was thinking the parents are presenting the 20 yr old and 5 yr old as full siblings.

I don't think it was right for the parents to tell the 20 yr old to keep it a secret or for them to lie (if they did) to say the two children are full siblings.

I highly doubt either thing happened.

"Don't make a point of bringing it up" is much, much less a big deal than "lie" or "keep a secret."

tigerlily · Guru

Papa Bear wrote:
tigerlily wrote:
I was thinking the parents are presenting the 20 yr old and 5 yr old as full siblings.

I don't think it was right for the parents to tell the 20 yr old to keep it a secret or for them to lie (if they did) to say the two children are full siblings.
I highly doubt either thing happened.
"Don't make a point of bringing it up" is much, much less a big deal than "lie" or "keep a secret."

I guess I feel that it's just as wrong to ask the 20 yr old to try not to mention her actual mom. I'm imagining them at the dinner table and normal conversation like "what are you doing for christmas this year?" being answered with "oh...spending time with my 'friend' since I'm spending thanksgiving with you".

There's not enough information to know what's going on. The 20 yr old's mom could be incredibly destructive and cut off from the 20 yr old or they could have a great relationship and the 20 yr old feels they have to 'edit' their mom from their life when at their dad's. Do both of the children call the new wife 'mom'? I really don't understand why it should not be brought up without some serious flaw with the 20 yr old's mom.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

tigerlily wrote:
Papa Bear wrote:
tigerlily wrote:
I was thinking the parents are presenting the 20 yr old and 5 yr old as full siblings.

I don't think it was right for the parents to tell the 20 yr old to keep it a secret or for them to lie (if they did) to say the two children are full siblings.
I highly doubt either thing happened.
"Don't make a point of bringing it up" is much, much less a big deal than "lie" or "keep a secret."
I guess I feel that it's just as wrong to ask the 20 yr old to try not to mention her actual mom. I'm imagining them at the dinner table and normal conversation like "what are you doing for christmas this year?" being answered with "oh...spending time with my 'friend' since I'm spending thanksgiving with you".
There's not enough information to know what's going on. The 20 yr old's mom could be incredibly destructive and cut off from the 20 yr old or they could have a great relationship and the 20 yr old feels they have to 'edit' their mom from their life when at their dad's. Do both of the children call the new wife 'mom'? I really don't understand why it should not be brought up without some serious flaw with the 20 yr old's mom.

Possibly the 20 something brought up his/her mom a LOT and the dad and step mom just got sick of it and have a blanket rule about it?

Forty-two · Guru

This seems inconceivable unless the five year old child is not very bright at all and never has a normal conversation with the parents and there are absolutely no pictures of the parents past in the home and, and, and...

Papa Bear · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
This seems inconceivable unless the five year old child is not very bright at all and never has a normal conversation with the parents (1) and there are absolutely no pictures of the parents past in the home (2) and, and, and...

I gather you were never in such a position, 42.

1. Most 5yo's I run across are not genealogists.

2. Kid is 5. The new dad would be OK with having photos of his wife with another guy hanging around the house? Six years after the fact?

Forty-two · Guru

You don't need to be a genealogist to figure out that you have a half sibling even at five.

If you have a teen-aged kid where are pictures of that kid and both of the parents when that was a baby? Was that kid in the picture when the parents got married? I guess the second question could be answered with the parents had the kid out of wedlock but I would think the question would be asked. So you would either have to lie to the five year old or the kid is not very bright.

Cactus · Senior Member

I don't think the 5 year old is necessary not bright but I do wonder what s/he thinks.

Forty-two · Guru

Cactus wrote:
I don't think the 5 year old is necessary not bright but I do wonder what s/he thinks.

I would think there is a sweeping effort from all around to hide the truth beyond the 20 year old not just "not mentioning" the other parent.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
You don't need to be a genealogist to figure out that you have a half sibling even at five.

If you have a teen-aged kid where are pictures of that kid and both of the parents when that was a baby? Was that kid in the picture when the parents got married? I guess the second question could be answered with the parents had the kid out of wedlock but I would think the question would be asked. So you would either have to lie to the five year old or the kid is not very bright.

My parents are still married, and had no previous marriages. And there are very very few pictures of me with both of my parents as a baby. Dad wasn't in to pictures. He gripes every time somebody asks him to smile for a picture. Never mind actually posing for a group photo. 2) They didn't have the money for professional pics. So there are lots of pictures of me, b/c my mom was the photographer. There aren't many pics of me w/Dad, b/c he doesn't like having his picture taken, and there aren't many pics of me with my mom b/c Dad doesn't like taking pictures. (Yes, Dad is a difficult man.) What pictures there are are in photo albums. We are just not a family that has lots of family pictures on the wall. In my parents' home, there is 1 photo of each of us on the wall - a graduation portrait.
I actually think it would be very easy for the 5 year old to not really "get" that the older sibling is only a half sibling. Assuming the older child is 20 (and I think probably older since the LW said "20 something"), he/she was at least 15 when the child was born. That means by the time the child was 3 at the oldest, the older siblign was at college. So older sibling is probably a very very periphreal presence in child's life.
If the LW had written in, "My son has been asked by his dad to not mention me in front of his 5 year old half-sibling. He is very upset about this. What should I do?" Then I would be on LW's side. But her focus is not on her child, but on the fact that this child with whom she has no relationship doesn't know she exists. The LW is not part of her ex's new family.

Forty-two · Guru

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
You don't need to be a genealogist to figure out that you have a half sibling even at five.

If you have a teen-aged kid where are pictures of that kid and both of the parents when that was a baby? Was that kid in the picture when the parents got married? I guess the second question could be answered with the parents had the kid out of wedlock but I would think the question would be asked. So you would either have to lie to the five year old or the kid is not very bright.

My parents are still married, and had no previous marriages. And there are very very few pictures of me with both of my parents as a baby. Dad wasn't in to pictures. He gripes every time somebody asks him to smile for a picture. Never mind actually posing for a group photo. 2) They didn't have the money for professional pics. So there are lots of pictures of me, b/c my mom was the photographer. There aren't many pics of me w/Dad, b/c he doesn't like having his picture taken, and there aren't many pics of me with my mom b/c Dad doesn't like taking pictures. (Yes, Dad is a difficult man.) What pictures there are are in photo albums. We are just not a family that has lots of family pictures on the wall. In my parents' home, there is 1 photo of each of us on the wall - a graduation portrait.
I actually think it would be very easy for the 5 year old to not really "get" that the older sibling is only a half sibling. Assuming the older child is 20 (and I think probably older since the LW said "20 something"), he/she was at least 15 when the child was born. That means by the time the child was 3 at the oldest, the older siblign was at college. So older sibling is probably a very very periphreal presence in child's life.
If the LW had written in, "My son has been asked by his dad to not mention me in front of his 5 year old half-sibling. He is very upset about this. What should I do?" Then I would be on LW's side. But her focus is not on her child, but on the fact that this child with whom she has no relationship doesn't know she exists. The LW is not part of her ex's new family.

The bolded is odd...why would she care?

Putting pictures aside I would think there was a sweeping effort with everyone involved. Surely the kid has asked how long mom and dad have been married, when the met, etc?

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Putting pictures aside I would think there was a sweeping effort with everyone involved. Surely the kid has asked how long mom and dad have been married, when the met, etc?

I don't really think a "sweeping effort" would be required, assuming older child is away at school and doesn't spend much time with the family. All of your questions can be answered with no reference to the first marriage. My cousin and her son live with us, and at 5 years old, I had to explain to him multiple times that his Grammy was my mom. And he saw us at least 15 days out of each month, depending on his visitation with his dad.

And if we take "20 something" to mean older child is, say, 24, that means that he/she would have been 19 when the child was born, and already at college. So, again, if older child is living his/her own life, and not spending a lot of time with the dad, the step-mom and the half-sibling, the five year old is probably barely aware of half sibling as a sibling at all.

Forty-two · Guru

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
Putting pictures aside I would think there was a sweeping effort with everyone involved. Surely the kid has asked how long mom and dad have been married, when the met, etc?

I don't really think a "sweeping effort" would be required, assuming older child is away at school and doesn't spend much time with the family. All of your questions can be answered with no reference to the first marriage. My cousin and her son live with us, and at 5 years old, I had to explain to him multiple times that his Grammy was my mom. And he saw us at least 15 days out of each month, depending on his visitation with his dad.

And if we take "20 something" to mean older child is, say, 24, that means that he/she would have been 19 when the child was born, and already at college. So, again, if older child is living his/her own life, and not spending a lot of time with the dad, the step-mom and the half-sibling, the five year old is probably barely aware of half sibling as a sibling at all.

Yes OD if the little kid asks how long you have been married or how long have you known each other the little kid will figure out that the older kid is not their child, particularly if marriage outside of wedlock is not done in your family or community. My son would say Mommy and Daddy how long have you been married? I would say ten years, for example, then he would say well where did my sister Sally come from?

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
OpheliaDev1 wrote:
Putting pictures aside I would think there was a sweeping effort with everyone involved. Surely the kid has asked how long mom and dad have been married, when the met, etc?

I don't really think a "sweeping effort" would be required, assuming older child is away at school and doesn't spend much time with the family. All of your questions can be answered with no reference to the first marriage. My cousin and her son live with us, and at 5 years old, I had to explain to him multiple times that his Grammy was my mom. And he saw us at least 15 days out of each month, depending on his visitation with his dad.

And if we take "20 something" to mean older child is, say, 24, that means that he/she would have been 19 when the child was born, and already at college. So, again, if older child is living his/her own life, and not spending a lot of time with the dad, the step-mom and the half-sibling, the five year old is probably barely aware of half sibling as a sibling at all.

Yes OD if the little kid asks how long you have been married or how long have you known each other the little kid will figure out that the older kid is not their child, particularly if marriage outside of wedlock is not done in your family or community. My son would say Mommy and Daddy how long have you been married? I would say ten years, for example, then he would say well where did my sister Sally come from?

The parents should answer those questions truthfully. If the child is asking in such a direct way, then they should answer honestly, "Before I was married to your mom, I was married to another woman. That woman is your brother's mom." If they are actually lying about that, that's screwed up. But I do think it very possible that the child has never asked those questions, if the older sibling isn't living with the parents.

uglydude42 · Senior Member

I believe each family dynamic is different. My step son is 11 and thinks of me as his dad. I have been around him since he was 4 months old. His Bio Dad has NEVER been in the picture, nor contributed child support or anything. He was a physical and emotional abuser to my wife when they were married. He has one or two older siblings that he knows nothing about. Now he has 2 younger sisters that adore him.

It is up to my wife and I when he will be told. So far the circumstance hasn't arose. We will handle that in our way, not the way other people dictate.

That's why I'm protective of him.

winds55 · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
OpheliaDev1 wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
You don't need to be a genealogist to figure out that you have a half sibling even at five.

If you have a teen-aged kid where are pictures of that kid and both of the parents when that was a baby? Was that kid in the picture when the parents got married? I guess the second question could be answered with the parents had the kid out of wedlock but I would think the question would be asked. So you would either have to lie to the five year old or the kid is not very bright.

My parents are still married, and had no previous marriages. And there are very very few pictures of me with both of my parents as a baby. Dad wasn't in to pictures. He gripes every time somebody asks him to smile for a picture. Never mind actually posing for a group photo. 2) They didn't have the money for professional pics. So there are lots of pictures of me, b/c my mom was the photographer. There aren't many pics of me w/Dad, b/c he doesn't like having his picture taken, and there aren't many pics of me with my mom b/c Dad doesn't like taking pictures. (Yes, Dad is a difficult man.) What pictures there are are in photo albums. We are just not a family that has lots of family pictures on the wall. In my parents' home, there is 1 photo of each of us on the wall - a graduation portrait.
I actually think it would be very easy for the 5 year old to not really "get" that the older sibling is only a half sibling. Assuming the older child is 20 (and I think probably older since the LW said "20 something"), he/she was at least 15 when the child was born. That means by the time the child was 3 at the oldest, the older siblign was at college. So older sibling is probably a very very periphreal presence in child's life.
If the LW had written in, "My son has been asked by his dad to not mention me in front of his 5 year old half-sibling. He is very upset about this. What should I do?" Then I would be on LW's side. But her focus is not on her child, but on the fact that this child with whom she has no relationship doesn't know she exists. The LW is not part of her ex's new family.
The bolded is odd...why would she care?
Putting pictures aside I would think there was a sweeping effort with everyone involved. Surely the kid has asked how long mom and dad have been married, when the met, etc?

I don't know why the LW cares either. I also cannot imagine a 5 year old child asking how long mom and dad have been married, when they met, or any questions remotely like that. Unless there's a big family gathering with lots of reminiscing and 'when your dad was little' stories going on, or a school project (and this doesn't seem like a kindergarten project) life 'before me' doesn't mean anything to most kids.

Most kids I know just accept the family as it exists - the whys and hows don't get questioned. Parents aren't 'real people', they're parents. (And the shock on my teenaged niece's face when she found out Grandpa and Grandma had dated other people before they were a couple was a riot. I'm not sure she's over the trauma yet, 10 years later.)

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

When I was 10, I was swimming at a public pool and a little girl (about 5) asked me how old I was. When I said, "10" she said, "No way! If you were 10 you'd be a grown-up!"

So even if the five year old has been told that his parents have been married for 6 years (or whatever) and his sibling is 22, those numbers don't necessarily MEAN anything to him.

I suppose it's possible that there is some family conspiracy and parents have lied and said, "Oh, we've been married for 30 years!" and the 20 something is forced to called step mom "mom". And if so, that's totally screwed up. But I think if that were going on, the LW would have mentioned it. Her letter was, IMO, deliberatly vague so that people would fill in the blank with the worst possible scenario, like CH did.

Cactus · Senior Member

I don't know that a 5 year old would ask a lot of questions about the parents' marriage. But if the 20 year old is around a lot, I can imagine questions about that. I can also imagine that if the 20 year old spends a lot of time with both the bio-mom and the new family, s/he would have occasion to refer to bio-mom while in the presense of the 5 year old at times. And how does 20 year old address stepmom? If s/he calls Dad "Dad" and stepmom by her name I can imagine the 5 year old asking why.

If the 20 year old is either hardly ever with new family or has grown up with the stepmom, calls her mom (not through being forced to) and doesn't see old mom so it never comes up maybe this is not much of an issue.

I agree the letter as posted is very vague!

Forty-two · Guru

Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.

I know many unmarried (and never been married) parents. It's not nice to lie. It makes kids wonder what other lies you have told when they figure it out.

Forty-two · Guru

RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.
I know many unmarried (and never been married) parents. It's not nice to lie. It makes kids wonder what other lies you have told when they figure it out.

I know plenty of unmarried and never been married parents too but I still have told my kids that you have to be married to have kids, it is the standard that we live by in my family and community. We have taught them from an early age that this is not acceptable.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.
I know many unmarried (and never been married) parents. It's not nice to lie. It makes kids wonder what other lies you have told when they figure it out.
I know plenty of unmarried and never been married parents too but I still have told my kids that you have to be married to have kids, it is the standard that we live by in my family and community. We have taught them from an early age that this is not acceptable.

The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid. Many parents either don't know (or don't believe) that their kids know (or will eventually know, anyway) the difference between concepts of "should and must".

I agree that one SHOULD be married first, and would have no issue with that sentiment being taught. I take issue with the lie that a marriage is REQUIRED before a baby is even possible (IE: the "have to be married first" lie).

Forty-two · Guru

RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.
I know many unmarried (and never been married) parents. It's not nice to lie. It makes kids wonder what other lies you have told when they figure it out.
I know plenty of unmarried and never been married parents too but I still have told my kids that you have to be married to have kids, it is the standard that we live by in my family and community. We have taught them from an early age that this is not acceptable.
The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid. Many parents either don't know (or don't believe) that their kids know (or will eventually know, anyway) the difference between concepts of "should and must".
I agree that one SHOULD be married first, and would have no issue with that sentiment being taught. I take issue with the lie that a marriage is REQUIRED before a baby is even possible (IE: the "have to be married first" lie).

You can look at it as a lie if you want to, but my kids would not look at it as a lie; the same as if I told my 12 year old she has to have a driver's license to drive, she has to be able to swim to jump into the deep end of the pool, etc. But if I want my kids to think it is a very bad thing to be pregnant and not married it is important to communicate strongly around that issue. By the time a kid understands how you get pregnant they aren't going to think you are a liar because you told them you had to be married to be pregnant. At least my kids don't think I am a liar because I told them that, I don't think kids are that...obtuse.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Gosh, my son has asked how long we have been married and has asked where was he in the wedding and that's when we would say you have to be married to have kids, so if he had a sibling older than he is he would know it was not from our marriage. This is reinforced when he sees old vacation pictures and again asks where was he and we will say he was not born yet. All of these discussions add up at least they do for my kid who is now five. Maybe he is weird

And Cactus you raise a good point as to what does the 20 year old call the non biological parent.
I know many unmarried (and never been married) parents. It's not nice to lie. It makes kids wonder what other lies you have told when they figure it out.
I know plenty of unmarried and never been married parents too but I still have told my kids that you have to be married to have kids, it is the standard that we live by in my family and community. We have taught them from an early age that this is not acceptable.
The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid. Many parents either don't know (or don't believe) that their kids know (or will eventually know, anyway) the difference between concepts of "should and must".
I agree that one SHOULD be married first, and would have no issue with that sentiment being taught. I take issue with the lie that a marriage is REQUIRED before a baby is even possible (IE: the "have to be married first" lie).
You can look at it as a lie if you want to, but my kids would not look at it as a lie; the same as if I told my 12 year old she has to have a driver's license to drive, she has to be able to swim to jump into the deep end of the pool, etc. But if I want my kids to think it is a very bad thing to be pregnant and not married it is important to communicate strongly around that issue. By the time a kid understands how you get pregnant they aren't going to think you are a liar because you told them you had to be married to be pregnant. At least my kids don't think I am a liar because I told them that, I don't think kids are that...obtuse.

You can't drive at 12 because it's illegal. So that's not a lie (it could be called "incomplete" though, because it IS possible to drive... just not possible to do it legally). Last time I checked, making babies without marriage wasn't illegal.

She actually doesn't have to be able to swim to be able to jump in the deep end... it would just be incredible foolish to do so.

And, if you re-read what I said, you'll notice that I agree with you that it's a bad thing to be an unwed parent.

Forty-two · Guru

Richard I don't need to re-read I know you did not disagree with the sentiment. It does not change that we don't agree with what is considered lying. When I say to my kid you can't do something it may mean you are not allowed to do it, like drive when you are 12, jump in the pool, or have a baby. You say to a kid it is a lie, maybe to the kids you know it is but not to mine.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
Richard I don't need to re-read I know you did not disagree with the sentiment. It does not change that we don't agree with what is considered lying. When I say to my kid you can't do something it may mean you are not allowed to do it, like drive when you are 12, jump in the pool, or have a baby. You say to a kid it is a lie, maybe to the kids you know it is but not to mine.

I believe saying something that's untrue is lying... what do you believe?

(Admittedly, I was raised in a VERY "black or white... there is no gray" household. Either it's true... or it isn't.)

Forty-two · Guru

Richard,

We were discussing the statement below, which while a kid you may know may consider that statement a lie, none of the ones I am raising would.
The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
Richard,

We were discussing the statement below, which while a kid you may know may consider that statement a lie, none of the ones I am raising would.
The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid

Ahhh...In my family that would be taken as "you are saying that you have raised them to not know the difference between the truth and a lie." (remember... no grey areas... either they do, or they don't)

Forty-two · Guru

RichardInTN wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Richard,

We were discussing the statement below, which while a kid you may know may consider that statement a lie, none of the ones I am raising would.
The problem is, that, to a kid, it's a lie to say you HAVE to be married to have a kid
Ahhh...In my family that would be taken as "you are saying that you have raised them to not know the difference between the truth and a lie." (remember... no grey areas... either they do, or they don't)

Ok

Papa Bear · Senior Member

It's like this. To say that you have to be bound by the Constitution (especially the Bill of Rights) to become president, I consider that to be minimally acceptable. But in other people's world, that would be a lie. This is like that.

winds55 · Guru

No, PB, it really isn't.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

winds55 wrote:
No, PB, it really isn't.

Agreed.

ladyloonatic · Senior Member

As for the OP, I don't know why the first wife is bent out of shape about the 5yo not knowing about her. If my ex had a new wife and kid I wouldn't expect to be acknowledged in any way.

And by saying her child with him is "20 something" that seems to say mid to late 20's, and probably isn't still in dad and new wife's home.