Invisapeeps 2.0

Papa Bear · Senior Member

What does "Progressive" mean to you?

Papa Bear · Senior Member

winds55 wrote:
It's obvious from your poll answers that you have no real interest in open discussion. I deal with enough of that 'tell me what you think, no really, I want to know, how could you be that stupid' 'did you stop beating your wife' bull at work, sure don't need it on my down time.

It's frustrating, isn't it?

ETA: As for my intention, my "real interest" was in asking, what does this word mean to you (all)? Aardvark wanted a thread; I gave a thread.

-- Edited by Papa Bear on Wednesday 4th of September 2013 09:06:21 PM

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

To me "Progressive" means "moving forward"... therefore it has nothing to do with Government, because Government doesn't know how to move in that direction.

I voted "Car Insurance"

winds55 · Guru

It's obvious from your poll answers that you have no real interest in open discussion. I deal with enough of that 'tell me what you think, no really, I want to know, how could you be that stupid' 'did you stop beating your wife' bull at work, sure don't need it on my down time.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

I do agree that the poll was rather one sided... politically speaking.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

RichardInTN wrote:
I do agree that the poll was rather one sided... politically speaking.

Politically speaking, only one side ever calls its policies "progressive." This regardless of whether these "progressive" policies actually result in progress.

That's why I want to know what everyone else considers a "progressive policy." Does just calling a policy "progressive" make it so, or does it ever have to mean actual progress?

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

I'll stick with my answer in the second post...

Aardvark · But my mom says I'm cool!

I voted for car insurance.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

I picked the second, b/c to me Progressive has become a buzzword and it's become separated from it's original meaning.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
I picked the second, b/c to me Progressive has become a buzzword and it's become separated from it's original meaning.

So the term is meaningless? Except as a vaguely feel-good label?

Sounds about right to me

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Papa Bear wrote:
OpheliaDev1 wrote:
I picked the second, b/c to me Progressive has become a buzzword and it's become separated from it's original meaning.
So the term is meaningless? Except as a vaguely feel-good label?
Sounds about right to me

Pretty much. Also, "progression" itself isn't a goal - it's a process. What are you progressing towards? Saying that a policy is "progressive" - what does that mean? ANY policy that promotes change can be seen as "progressive" even if that change is awful or just stupid.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

Good point OD -- what constitutes progress? I'd like that spelled out as well when someone claims to be "progressive."

RareEyre · Veteran Member

I think political terminology comes with all sorts of baggage (earned and unearned) and it's difficult to define them without bias. I think those who consider themselves "progressive" believe that they support and advocate for policy that is ahead of the curve, so to speak, when it comes to advancing the common good. It's the sort of thing that springs up from the grassroots and moves to the state or national level from local needs.

Generally speaking, progressive policies don't have to be limited by political party or philosophy. The big differences arise because people don't agree on what constitutes the common good.

I honestly believe that most Americans want to reduce unemployment, eliminate racial bias, etc. We just don't agree on how. Sometimes the most basic solution ("Wal, gee, just hire more workers already!") isn't realistic without making other adjustments first. Sometimes the collateral damage from a proposed solution is just as devastating as the problem. If we really want to see progress in our country, it all boils down to ends and means. What do we really want and how to we get there without causing more harm than the status quo already does?

Of course, a large element of the personal philosophies of the American professional politicians is concern for their own personal common good, and good luck to the rest of us, so that doesn't really help.

So, I voted car insurance. :)

Papa Bear · Senior Member

Those who consider (i.e. call) themselves progressive are often advocating policies that hurt the poor. Disagreement about the common good, indeed.

RareEyre · Veteran Member

Papa Bear wrote:
Those who consider (i.e. call) themselves progressive are often advocating policies that hurt the poor. Disagreement about the common good, indeed.

They can, but I don't presume they do it on purpose. I highly doubt the average self-described progressive lies awake at night plotting his or her next cause with the further discomfort of the poor as the goal (mwahahahaha, etc.). I do think that sometimes when there is a problem (poverty) people who are passionate by nature can get a little steamrolly about fixing it NOW without realizing the consequences. I think the solution is to step back from the demonization of our fellow citizens (the average folk, not the vocal fringes) and really, truly work together toward shared goals. There really should be enough that we can agree upon to keep us busy for a long, long time if we get back to fundamentals. A girl can dream, right?

It's also far too easy these days to insist that someone who wants to use different means to achieve the same ends is actually against said ends, and the under-informed agree without thinking about it.

Papa Bear · Senior Member

RareEyre wrote:
Papa Bear wrote:
Those who consider (i.e. call) themselves progressive are often advocating policies that hurt the poor. Disagreement about the common good, indeed.
They can, but I don't presume they do it on purpose. I highly doubt the average self-described progressive lies awake at night plotting his or her next cause with the further discomfort of the poor as the goal (mwahahahaha, etc.). I do think that sometimes when there is a problem (poverty) people who are passionate by nature can get a little steamrolly about fixing it NOW without realizing the consequences. I think the solution is to step back from the demonization of our fellow citizens (the average folk, not the vocal fringes) and really, truly work together toward shared goals. There really should be enough that we can agree upon to keep us busy for a long, long time if we get back to fundamentals. A girl can dream, right?
It's also far too easy these days to insist that someone who wants to use different means to achieve the same ends is actually against said ends, and the under-informed agree without thinking about it.

I guess I resent that part the most, that Progressives describe themselves as such and others buy into the label as such, with all of it happening more-or-less on autopilot. Every time I ask someone self-described as "progressive" to reconcile their beliefs with actual progress, they get testy.

But at least they're safe drivers. Maybe it really is car insurance!

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Renegade Time Lord wrote:
I voted for car insurance. Flo is awesome! Definitely shagworthy in my book!

No argument there!

Cactus · Senior Member

winds55 wrote:
It's obvious from your poll answers that you have no real interest in open discussion. I deal with enough of that 'tell me what you think, no really, I want to know, how could you be that stupid' 'did you stop beating your wife' bull at work, sure don't need it on my down time.

I have to agree with this, and from years of casual observation, also must say that this is completely typical of how this OP posts

Mary Zombie · Your brains...they're delicious.

I vote for a really awesome type of classic Rock made famous by the great bands ELP....YES....JETHRO TULL etc.....especially ELP....

Papa Bear · Senior Member

Cactus wrote:
winds55 wrote:
It's obvious from your poll answers that you have no real interest in open discussion. I deal with enough of that 'tell me what you think, no really, I want to know, how could you be that stupid' 'did you stop beating your wife' bull at work, sure don't need it on my down time.
I have to agree with this, and from years of casual observation, also must say that this is completely typical of how this OP posts

Well goodness, this was fun

All I wanted was to know what people mean when they throw the word around. But yeah, it probably ran its course.