Invisapeeps 2.0

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Need Advice! Confrontation with cousin with bratty son

Desdenova · Motherhood: Sleep is for the weak!!

Oh my dear God, I don't know this kid and I want to run away.

I guess that your cousin lives in a different world than you do, and also she can't do anything wrong very much like her son. Maybe if you just present the situation in a way where her son is the affected on (like he's the one that doesn't get to play with the toy of the other kid) and get her to admit that it's not fair, then asking her why when his kid does it's not a big deal she might get it.
Some people just have a hard time putting themselves in other people's shoes.

Also the kid seems to like to test the limits of everyone's patience, and you know kids don't really want to do anything they want, most kids seek guidance regarding behavior.

I hope you can get her to understand!
Good luck!

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

I don't have anything to add or any help to advise you of... but I do feel your pain and you have my sympathies. I have a spoiled rotten little brat in my house that gets away with MURDER because The Wife lets him.

He has been trained (by her) well. He knows if he whines and complains enough, she'll give in.

winds55 · Guru

I think all youo can do is go in with the factual examples of the behavior and the consequences - leaving emotion out of it as much as possible. (Don't say 'he ruined Christmas', say 'Mom was not able to enjoy decorating the tree because we had to worry about kid throwing ornaments'.)

Why are you and your mother going to counseling with her? Is it a safe place for her where she may be more open to seeing how things are, rather than feeling she has to find somewhere to deflect the blame?

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

I have been asking my mom for over a year to say something to her. B/c mom is the matriarch of the house, and I don't feel I can say, "You need to change XYZ behavior." So instead I just leave. Mom is kind of co-dependent and avoids conflict.

So after the whole Christmas debacle, everybody was so angry that we thought that speaking with a counselor as a mediator is the only way.

We bring up specific examples and she "doesn't remember". It's just...I don't even KNOW what it is!

At our house, we have 6 dogs and 3 cats. (Yes, its' a herd.) One of those dogs is hers. B/c of her crazy schedule, the vast majority of the time, we feed her dog. So when she first moved in, she'd feed all of the pets when she could, and it worked out okay. Now she only feeds her dog. Mom asked her about that, and "she couldn't find the dogfood." The dogfood is in stackable containers. Our dog's food is on a container ON TOP OF her dog's food! Where it has been for 3.5 years! It's bizarre. It's almost pathological.

In a previous thread, I mentioned that she took him to a party (an adult party, I'm sure) and she complained about how he put is feet on her friend's couch and wouldn't obey when she told him to stop doing it. Then in the next breath she's all mad b/c her son has been dis-invited to her brother's wedding. Now she claims she doesn't remember that conversation at all!

Oh, I forgot to add - she made him box up all of his toys and books on Christmas morning. On Christmas evening she "only" let him play with his old Legos and no new toys. And the morning after Christmas, she gave it all back.

Desdenova · Motherhood: Sleep is for the weak!!

I think she has no consistency when it comes to discipline, and that's key for a child. Could she feel overwhelmed by how her life is going?

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Des, ITA. There is NO consistency. Basically she ignores a behavior. The behavior escalates. Then she finds it annoying and screams at him. Rather than learning that certain small behaviors escalate and shutting them down before that happens.

I have no doubt she feels overwhelmed. But when she finished her first residency, she decided that career wasn't fulfilling enough so she applied for and accepted a SECOND residency! So she had the opportunity to be a pediatrician and have a good paying job with regular hours. And she chose otherwise. She's not a high-school dropout single mom working 2 min wage jobs just to pay the bills. She has options.

winds55 · Guru

I can see why the kid is so screwed up. Most kids can handle any parenting style, as long as it's consistent.

Balloon Animal · Guru

I know this is old, but I have a lot of experience with kids and even kids of other people that are not mine. I can usually get other people's kids to behave really well for me. It is my own that give me hell! haha

I would start a policy of going up to him and saying "In this house, this is not allowed. In my home if you do X then the consequence is Y" and follow through. Even if your Cousin has a problem with it. If she won't let you enforce your house rules than tell her they will have to leave. It works really well with other people's kids. I never have any trouble out of the dozens of kids that come through here.

The only other option is to just avoid them and stop inviting them to things but that seems like not an option.

I was worried when one friend of Hip Hop's came over to play because he is a wild child. Like in trouble at school every day. But he was as good as gold in my house. I think kids will be on their best behavior around other people if they know they have to be. You just have to be zero tolerance about any of the shenanigans. Don't single him out and make it all about him but make it more about "House rules" and make all the kids follow them. Kids are more likely to play along in that case. Of course with some kids you won't get anything out of them no matter what but maybe that can help.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Hey, BA! Good to see you! There's more background on my "why are you feeding him diet food" thread, but the situation is just out of control. I can't really do what you say b/c I live with my parents, so it falls on my mom to draw the line that way. About half the time when somebody corrects him, my cousin jumps in and excuses what he's doing. And I think that on some level, she resents my sister and my sister's son for making her son "look bad". I think she doesn't realize how bad her kid is until she sees that the three year old is better behaved than her 8.5 year old son.

Balloon Animal · Guru

Hi Ophelia! Good to see you too! :)
Do you think your mom would be willing to do the "House rules" thing? If you and your mom and everyone but Cousin got together and agreed how to handle it and all handled it the same maybe the little boy would "get" it. It is sad his mom just doesn't care. I feel for him and for everyone else that has to deal with it.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

She and mom went to a 2 hour counseling session. Cousin was not willing to do the 2 small things mom asked, and Mom realized that it was pointless. And it is. We can't save CS from Cousin's parenting choices.

Riding in the WY Wind · ~Ride Free~ ~ Live Free~ (M)

Just checking to see if things have settled down, worked out, changed at all?

Hoping life is smoother for your whole family

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

I will say things have settled down, but not really "worked out". We're in a holding pattern. Mom finally ovaried up some and told Cousin that she needed to move out at the end of March. Cousin was (of course) shocked and didn't understand what had changed. When this exploded in January, Cousin said she should move out. Looking back, this was IMO a subconsious manipulation tactic. Mom of course said, "No, no, don't do that, you still need our help."

My sister drew her line in the sand - she will not allow Nephew 3 around CS any more. She is tired of her son being bullied by CS (who is 8) and of her son being held to a higher standard of behavior by Cousin.

then after that, Sister and I "dropped the rope". my anger largely burnt itself out. I stopped complaining (mostly) about Cousin. I also stopped cleaning up after her. I told mom that I was no longer going to empty and reload the dishwasher and do other cleaning tasks in the common areas, since she wasn't willing to ask cousin to do them.

So basically Mom had to sort of "sit" with these things for a while. One the small but very symbolic recurring issues in the house is that Cousin and CS eat at our kitchen table 2 meals a day (breakfast and dinner), depending on Cousins' work schedule. They leave the table covered in salt. Mom has been complaining about this to me for years. Our nice table (it's a wooden butterfly leave table, cost $1200 10 years ago) is now pitted from where the salt sat on the table and absorbed humidity from the air and dissolved. Mom left a note on the table for Cousin to wipe the table after each meal. Cousin found the note and got all bent out of shape because Mom left a note vs talking to her. So they had yet another "heart to heart". (eye roll)

So between that and Mom getting very angry that she couldn't have her grandson (my Nephew 3), at her house anymore because of CS's behavior, she told Cousin she needed to be out by the end of March. Cousin was shocked, but one of the things Mom pointed out was that Cousin couldn't even do the small thing Mom asked (wiping the table) yet she makes snarky remarks about the messy living room and kitchen.

So Mom told Cousin she could keep her rent for Feb and March for her moving expenses. She also found it what the tuition for CS's school would be if Cousin moved out of our city.

So Cousin finds a place - but just coincidentally she can't move out until the end of May. But she is apparently not going to pay rent for Feb, Mar, April and May. But she is right now in Aspen skiiing, and she and her son are going to DisneyWorld (again) this spring. So I pointed out that I was superglad that she was able to live with us for free so she could afford all of these trips, yet eat our food and have us dogsit and clean up after her.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Oh, and she's selling her extra furniture on Craig's list. And per usual, she doesn't bother telling any of us what's going on. So I'm sitting there watching TV, and I turn and there's this little girl (probably about 7) standing beside me. I was watching Ink Master, so it was not very appropriate. So I go ask mom if she knows that Cousin has a guest. Then a woman comes out of Cousin's area. Then 2 men. So we've got a bunch of people trooping through our house, NO idea why they are there.

Then another couple comes by.

So Cousin is selling her extra furniture, and they were there to pick it up.

Except one piece was ours that we had loaned her.

Yup, she sold a piece of our furniture.

EmmDee · Guru

I'm sorry, but how does she find a place that isn't available until 2 months after her move out day? Doesn't sound like she found a place and she needs to keep looking.

EmmDee · Guru

WTF on the furniture?!? I hope she at least paid up the money she sold it for.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Apparently she told mom that it's a new apartment building and they won't be finished until then. I think it's super convienent how she scheduled it so she gets 4 months of no rent along with free food, utilities and dog sitting, and she manages to not have to pay any tuition, since CS will be in the new school system next September.

EmmDee · Guru

And I would be saying, great, go ahead and pay April and May since that is when you were supposed to start paying rent at your apartment or so sorry that place doesn't seem to work with our schedule, hope you find another place in time to be out by the end of the month.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Sister suggested Mom hand her a bill for Feb and March rent, plus the piece of furniture, plus the dog sitting for the time she was in Aspen.

I don't mind taking care of her dog, but she needs to say, "I''m going to be out of town for a few days, can you take care of Dog? Thanks." We literally had no idea where she was until the pics showed up on Facebook. That's so basic that I just can't comprehend her not doing this.

Mom says she probably forgot the furniture wasn't hers. Maybe, maybe not.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

When Mom mentioned the salt-covered table to Cousin, her response was, "Well, you, Ophelia and (my dad) are so messy I just don't see what the big deal is."

Yup. After years of us cleaning up her dogs' massive amounts of vomit (seriously, I have NEVER met dogs that vomit like these) and urine, and washing her dishes, that's the response.

just hanging around · Senior Member

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
Apparently she told mom that it's a new apartment building and they won't be finished until then. I think it's super convienent how she scheduled it so she gets 4 months of no rent along with free food, utilities and dog sitting, and she manages to not have to pay any tuition, since CS will be in the new school system next September.

your mom should tell cousin that it's very unfortunate that she has chosen to rent a place that is not yet built, but that's not her problem. that's Cousin's problem. Cousin and her child and her dogs need to be out at the end of March.

and there will be no more babysitting or dogsitting, or cleaning, or catering after they move out. if Cousin has a problem with that, she can go freeload off of her own parents.

oh, and from my own experience of building a house, the damn house was finished about 6 weeks after it was supposed to be. meaning that Cousin and her golden child could be your problem through most of the summer, waiting for the apartment to be finished.

as a grandmother, there is no way in hell that i would allow this little brat to keep me from seeing my grandchild. Cousin is way, wayyyy off base here, and if she wants someone to think she and her kid are the bees knees, she needs to go to her own parents. and stop hijacking your parents.

Balloon Animal · Guru

I would have to move out because I could not deal with this. I don't do well with adults being coddled and treated like 13 year old girls. I would be pissed at my mother that she is essentially putting a niece over her own actual daughters and grandchildren. I don't do well with that. I better be #1 to my parents as far as when it comes to stuff like that because I am their actual child they chose to have and raise so yeah, they owe me a bit more loyalty than they do a niece.

I am so sorry you have to deal with this.

just hanging around · Senior Member

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
When Mom mentioned the salt-covered table to Cousin, her response was, "Well, you, Ophelia and (my dad) are so messy I just don't see what the big deal is."

"the deal is it is OUR HOUSE. we can act as we want in OUR HOUSE. and since you and your son and your damn messy dogs are (nominally) paying guests in OUR HOUSE, you don't get to decide how we should act in OUR HOUSE."

okay, i feel better now. it just really irritates me when someone has been getting basically a free ride complains as to how that ride looks....

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

JHA and BA, I totally agree. But mom has serious co-dependency issues and Cousin "needs us". She and her dad don't speak (he is a horse's ass) and her mom is a nutbag.

Mom and I went to see the counsellor in January when this all blew up, and I was firmly saying, "Good, let her move out." When we shared some of the history with Counsellor, he more agreed with mom that Cousin and CS needed us. They both kept asking, "What if she agrees to follow these rules?" And I finally said, "What if she starts ****ting gold bricks? That's just as likely."

Sister does feel like mom has chosen Cousin. In a way, she has - Cousin is the "difficult" one and Sister and I are the "reasonable" ones. So we've been expected to accomodate Cousin and CS's issues. It wasn't a huge deal until CS became seriously jealous of Nephew. Mom is very co-dependent. Plus Dad doesn't see the whole issue - he just sees us being "mean" to Cousin. He agrees that CS is an annoying brat, but he is oblivious to the last three years of her being so rude to us.

I got FURIOUS with him last week. I wish I had said something but I had no idea what to say. Nephew had to go to the hospital (he's fine, thank goodness), and Dad said, "Wouldn't it be amazing if Cousin saved that baby's life and you all felt bad for being so ****ty to her?" Yes, apparently me choosing to not speak to her sometimes is "****ty".

I'm very very resentful about that. Both Mom and Dad have scolded me for not talking to Cousin, but have they ever scolded her for not talking to me? Why do *I* have to be the one to chirp out, "Good morning!" every time.

Mom and I got into a big argument about it and she did apologize. I just ignore Dad.

EmmDee · Guru

Oh ****, sounds like Dad is just as much of an issue.

Riding in the WY Wind · ~Ride Free~ ~ Live Free~ (M)

Oh my. Sounds lie things are still difficult. Hope your cousin moves sooner. We all see the issue as you do. Unfortunately seems your parents don't. 😳. Here's a little refreshment to relax you 🍹🍹🍭🍭🍷🍷🍻🍻💙

just hanging around · Senior Member

Ophelia, i think it will be a big eye opener for Grandpa when Nephew lets him know that he understands that CS is more important to Grandpa than Nephew is.

i hope your sister will hold to her decision to not bring Nephew to your parents' house while CS is still in residence.

as a grandparent, no child comes before my grandchildren. doesn't mean i don't care for other children. just that my grandbabies come first with me.