Invisapeeps 2.0

Forty-two · Guru

Token Black and other things kids today don't know

Balloon Animal · Guru

LOL I love Token.

I think it is progress that kids don't understand what a Token black is anymore.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Balloon Animal wrote:
LOL I love Token.

I think it is progress that kids don't understand what a Token black is anymore.

I agree.

Cactus · Senior Member

RichardInTN wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
LOL I love Token.

I think it is progress that kids don't understand what a Token black is anymore.
I agree.

But it was only the white kids who didn't know what it was. I don't think it's really anything new for them to be unaware of racism or of a minority experience or perspective.

There are other kids who might not know the phrase but know the concept or would if they stopped to think about it- it shouldn't be that alien to them.

-- Edited by Cactus on Monday 19th of May 2014 11:50:05 PM

-- Edited by Cactus on Monday 19th of May 2014 11:53:30 PM

Forty-two · Guru

Cactus wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
LOL I love Token.

I think it is progress that kids don't understand what a Token black is anymore.
I agree.
But it was only the white kids who didn't know what it was. I don't think it's really anything new for them to be unaware of racism or of a minority experience or perspective.
There are other kids who might not know the phrase but know the concept or would if they stopped to think about it- it shouldn't be that alien to them.

-- Edited by Cactus on Monday 19th of May 2014 11:50:05 PM

-- Edited by Cactus on Monday 19th of May 2014 11:53:30 PM

I don't think it is progress in the case of these kids it is just willful ignorance. Since Token is a real name (even for the crazy-assed names black people will give their kids) I would think they would be able to figure out why the kid was named Token.

flan327 · Senior Member

I doubt kids know what a rotary phone is.

flan

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

How old were the kids?

ana · Senior Member

As teenagers, they should really be aware of this stuff. But priviledged kids rarely see past their own experience.

Balloon Animal · Guru

I think it is unfair to put how it was for us on young kids. With each generation it changes drastically as far as that goes and you have to see it from their perspective and to them, black people are everywhere and welcomed everywhere and featured prominently in movies, tv shows, as lead characters. So no, they may not understand the token black. I mean is Obama a token black president? No. He is just our President.

I am thinking about my kids and yes, there is not a lot of black kids in their school. There is about 1 or 2 in each grade and about 2 Hispanic kids and there is one middle eastern family at the school with 2 kids. That is it. The rest is all white. But even with that being such a small majority, my kids think nothing of it. They just see them as kids just like them and don't feel the need to make it about them being the minority or the token ethnic kids. They are just their friends, their peers, their fellow students. I think that is a good thing personally.

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Tuesday 20th of May 2014 10:03:49 AM

Cactus · Senior Member

BA, I'm not sure I would expect most young white kids to understand off the bat but I also don't think it's a hard concept to grasp. It's true there are more representations of black people in popular culture than there used to be but there are still problems with those representations not to mention there are other minorities that are not so well represented.
The kids in question are familiar with South Park and I think the show's humor references contemporary things, it's not ancient history.
I think many people become more aware of issues that don't directly affect them as they get older, more experienced and hopefully more thoughtful, so I wouldn't necessarily expect a group of young, sheltered white kids to know much about this. I don't think this is any more true now than it was before though.

-- Edited by Cactus on Tuesday 20th of May 2014 10:12:25 AM

Cactus · Senior Member

As far as having friends of other races and "thinking nothing of it" I think minorities tend to be more aware of being minorities within a group - it may be only the white kids who "think nothing of it". I am not saying it has to be a huge deal to the minority members of a group but I don't think they can lack that awareness in the way the members of the majority can.

ana · Senior Member

Of course, the white kids don't think about that stuff. They are white and with that comes priveledge. Expecting a white person to get the experience a minority person faces on a daily basis is just not possible. I think with age, empathy is possible.

I still cringe when people talk about Indians' smelling or their food being "nasty". It's a huge country with a pretty varied culture and food but to write of the entire nation in one fell swoop is disheartening to hear.

And everything Cactus said. She said it well.

Balloon Animal · Guru

Cactus wrote:
As far as having friends of other races and "thinking nothing of it" I think minorities tend to be more aware of being minorities within a group - it may be only the white kids who "think nothing of it". I am not saying it has to be a huge deal to the minority members of a group but I don't think they can lack that awareness in the way the members of the majority can.

I think you just have to be careful because if you are always telling minority kids they are different and things are harder for them and they are a minority and things are set up against them because of that, you might be giving them more issues than just being the only black kid in the class is giving them.

Kids are blissfully unaware of a lot of stuff like that and there is no reason to break their innocence any earlier than necessary.

ana · Senior Member

No one is telling the minority kids anything. It's what they experience. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not there.

Your child might have "innocence" regarding race and colour longer because it is something he doesn't have to face. But watching your sister have rocks thrown at her because of her colour tends to make one aware pretty damn fast!

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

It's possible that the kids (not sure of ages) didn't know what the word "token" meant. Or yes, they are just that dumb. Maybe they know the definition of token as in a game token, but not as in token black or token woman.

Like a guy I knew who had no idea what Nazis were. He knew the word as it is casually used, like Soup Nazi. But he had no idea about the role the Nazis played in WWII, concentration camps, etc.

However, he was in general a deeply stupid person.

I think there are people who are just so self-absorbed that they don't really learn by context very well.

Cactus · Senior Member

Balloon Animal wrote:
Cactus wrote:
As far as having friends of other races and "thinking nothing of it" I think minorities tend to be more aware of being minorities within a group - it may be only the white kids who "think nothing of it". I am not saying it has to be a huge deal to the minority members of a group but I don't think they can lack that awareness in the way the members of the majority can.
I think you just have to be careful because if you are always telling minority kids they are different and things are harder for them and they are a minority and things are set up against them because of that, you might be giving them more issues than just being the only black kid in the class is giving them.
Kids are blissfully unaware of a lot of stuff like that and there is no reason to break their innocence any earlier than necessary.

The non minority children are probably more "blissfully unaware" than the minority kids. And of course I am not saying you should be telling other people's kids they will face difficulties. They learn from experience and their own parents will have more understanding of what the kids should be taught regarding this and issues they might face ( though the parents don't always know either).

And even kids who have friends of different races and "think nothing of it" can sometimes say ignorant, insensitive, or racist things, sometimes without realizing it.

Balloon Animal · Guru

Or they don't say anything racist intended or unintended and everyone gets along. That is also an option.

Forty-two · Guru

OD my daughter is a sophomore. And there is the "Obama phenomenon" going on in her world. Oh 42 junior you are a straight A student you have a nice house you go on fancy vacations all things are equal in the world of race. Ihave to admit my kid wishes she new more black people.

Forty-two · Guru

Ana how old are your nieces? do they wish for more Indian friends?

ana · Senior Member

My neices are 13 and 16 and they are exposed to a lot of Indian kids through my sister and BIL's friends. They like some but they don't have ANY Indian friends from school or sports. Indians are not really known for their athleticism. aww

And actually they don't wish for more Indian friends. They are exposed to a lot of Indian culture on weekends and my sister insists on them taking Indian classical dance.

My sister's and BIL's circle tends to be mostly Indian. My husband is the token white guy at our holiday dinners. biggrin

-- Edited by ana on Tuesday 20th of May 2014 01:37:03 PM

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Sophmore, so 16? Yeah, that's a bit old to not know that

Forty-two · Guru

Marrying a white guy has decreased my kids' black exposure at my offering so I really worry about my son. Ana you will get a kick out of this he thinks Indians are black people since I don't think he knows and Indian lighter skinned than he is. Yeah we are working on him knowing the difference.

FrootLoop · Naturally Frootilicious

I'm reading an older crime novel and Ma Bell came up, I'm betting that pretty much anyone under 40 hasn't a clue about who or what Ma Bell was.

ana · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
Marrying a white guy has decreased my kids' black exposure at my offering so I really worry about my son. Ana you will get a kick out of this he thinks Indians are black people since I don't think he knows and Indian lighter skinned than he is. Yeah we are working on him knowing the difference.

That is sort of adorable!

I am pretty light-skinned and I would asked if I was really Indian by Indian people. cry And then they wouldn't believe me that I was Indian going back at least 4 generations! furious

I think my sister felt the same way when she had her girls, so she started going to the temple and has tonnes of Indian friends now.

You need to get yourself and your son to a black church! He needs to know his people! biggrin

My nephews are half Indian and half Dutch. They really have no background regarding their Indian hertitage. My sister took them to India with us, and takes them to Indian weddings. They have been exposed to the food from a very young age because my Mom watched the boys when they were young, but my YS is like me and not religious so does not have regular contact with Indian people. The boys are pretty light. You can't even tell the younger one is partly Indian because even the undertone of his skin is pink! The older one has a slight olive tone but they both totally pass as white/European.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

FrootLoop wrote:
I'm reading an older crime novel and Ma Bell came up, I'm betting that pretty much anyone under 40 hasn't a clue about who or what Ma Bell was.

The phone company? Or rather, I guess the original phone company that broke into lots of smaller phone companies. (I'm mid 30s, btw.)

FrootLoop · Naturally Frootilicious

OpheliaDev1 wrote:
FrootLoop wrote:
I'm reading an older crime novel and Ma Bell came up, I'm betting that pretty much anyone under 40 hasn't a clue about who or what Ma Bell was.
The phone company? Or rather, I guess the original phone company that broke into lots of smaller phone companies. (I'm mid 30s, btw.)

Yup! It all used to be Ma Bell. When I was a kid my phone number was Mayfair 3442 lol.

ana · Senior Member

Growing up in Canada, I never understood how people could have a 4 digit phone number!

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

I recently read a book about the 1918 flu. In Philadelphia, they set up a number - Filbert 100. You called the number, said "Influenza" and your address, and they'd send somebody to check on you. Still not sure how the name part of it works.

Forty-two · Guru

The name would be like the first three digits, to this day I still remember some phone numbers by names like Grenich 3065

ana · Senior Member

How does a name translate to numbers? Like #2 would be ABC so Grenich would be GRE which would be 473?

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
How does a name translate to numbers? Like #2 would be ABC so Grenich would be GRE which would be 473?

Exactly. Phone "numbers" were still 7 digits back then (no area codes yet) and (supposedly) it was easier to remember a word and 4 or 5 numbers... than it was to remember 7 numbers.