Invisapeeps 2.0

EmmDee · Guru

People's Court case

uglydude42 · Senior Member

If he paid what the contractor gave him on estimate the homeowner met his requirement. The contractor scammed him for amount of materials. If it were 1 or 2 boxes, no big deal. But if it was a substantial amount of materials he should be entitled to all funds contractor received as he returned the materials.

On future projects I would reccomend if a contractor is used, get it writting what will be the diposition of unused material. Homeowner keep, or refund of material goes to homeowner. If not a contractors can really scam homeowners.

Mata Hari · Veteran Member

thats fraud what the contactor did.

yes, standard practice says get an extra box , maybe two

not 2x the anticipated need.

wonder how many times the jerk has successfully pulled that scam.

safety_mom · I'm really not that safe!

If homeowner agreed to $1000 for materials and $1000 for labor (just as an example), then homeowner owes $2000, regardless of whether the contractor only paid $500 for materials.

Just like if homeowner agreed to $1000 for materials and $1000 for labor and the contractor underestimated and actually had to use $1500 of materials, homeowner would still only owe $2000.

Besides, shingles aren't the only materials used. Unless the contractor gave him an itemized list that said he would use 34 boxes of shingles, 4 boxes of nails, 2 rolls of tar paper, 14 2x4 to replace bad lumber, etc. If there was an itemized list saying exactly what number of shingles would be used, then my story is different.

I would think the contractor gave him the receipt for a "20 year guarantee" kind of thing that is on the shingles themselves.

EmmDee · Guru

Judge ruled in contractor's favor because she said that it should not matter how many boxes were used. The contract did not list "34 boxes shingles", the contract said "materials $x". Since the homeowner agreed to pay $x in materials, it did not matter how much contractor actually spent since if the contractor. Had the contractor needed to buy 40 boxes, the contractor would have to eat the extra cost.

safety_mom · I'm really not that safe!

Yay! I agreed with the judge! LOL.

EmmDee · Guru

LOL, I know safety, I was wishing I had seen your post before typing out mine because I could have just said, yep, that's what the judge said.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Contractor wins on this one...

Riding in the WY Wind · ~Ride Free~ ~ Live Free~ (M)

I am with the contractor.

kapper · I am always right, unless I am wrong.

Contractor's right. Once you sign a contract you have to live by it.

tigerlily · Guru

I guess by the contract terms, the homeowner owes the full amount. However, I think the contractor should suffer some type of consequence because twice the amount of needed materials either means he's terrible at his job or he's scamming people.

uglydude42 · Senior Member

I agree Tiger. Although the judge made point that it was an agreed upon. So I picked it wrong. If that would have happened to me there would be some BAD reviews about this contractor and his scams.

EmmDee · Guru

But if the contractor never said, I will install X # of boxes of shingles for $X amount, I don't think he did anything wrong. If the homeowner had doubts of how much material it would take, get another estimate. Estimate the square footage of the roof and do a little legwork to estimate how much you think it would take. I have homeowners call me up all the time with their dimensions telling me that they got a quote from a landscaper and are told it will take 8 yards of material. I do the calculations and come up with 4 yards. They not only did their homework but also had a quote that quantified the amount of materials to be used not just a dollar amount being allocated. If a homeowner wants to pay straight up for the cost of materials they have to request that in the contract or do the legwork themselves in purchasing the materials and hiring out for labor only.

uglydude42 · Senior Member

It is all about how the contract was written.

tigerlily · Guru

That's a good point EmmDee, and one I probably wouldn't have thought to do.

When we were having problems with our A/C unit and trying to get second opinions, I encountered some hostility from some other companies for questioning the 1st guy's methods and solutions. Plus a lot of conflicting opinions ("Yeah, that's good" vs "Oh! We would NEVER do something like that. It's not good for the system"). So a 2nd opinion isn't always enough to make sure everything is right.

Obviously in the case of materials it's a lot easier to double check pricing and amounts needed, but I do feel like the contractors and companies have a responsibility to not take advantage of people. And that there should be some sort of consequence when they do.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

There's also the possible issue of "markup". He gets the supplies at a "contractor's rate" and sells them at a profit. He could have done this pricing intentionally, for the purposes of making money legitimately. He could have bought double the amount needed "just in case".

I have relatives that own a small convenience store in a rural area. They buy lots of their store stock from Sam's and then just double the price on the shelf.

That's how companies make their money.

Zee Cat · Member

If the contract simply said "materials = $X" rather than "materials = $X (shingles $y, nails $j, etc.) than homeowner is out of luck. I don't think it is right, but legally he doesn't have a leg to stand on.