Invisapeeps 2.0

I think the rule is fine. I have seen what happens when people create false ones so I think it is a fair rule. I don't see how the mods having separate ones from thei mod role makes sense.

What constitutes a 'false' account? What's false about it?

As long as every account is respectful what difference does it make if you have more than one?

I realize the mod account is dedicated to one thing. I'd like an account dedicated to one thing as well.

If there was a problem with someone I don't see the need to tell them they can't have multiple accounts. If someone is causing a problem with a specific account address it normally. Any account abuse will have that account deactivated or whatever the process is I have no idea. If they are abusive with another account deactivate that one as well.

Besides, there's a way around that rule. Why have a rule that you can't enforce?

dqm either wrote:

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What constitutes a 'false' account? What's false about it?

As long as every account is respectful what difference does it make if you have more than one?

I realize the mod account is dedicated to one thing. I'd like an account dedicated to one thing as well.

If there was a problem with someone I don't see the need to tell them they can't have multiple accounts. If someone is causing a problem with a specific account address it normally. Any account abuse will have that account deactivated or whatever the process is I have no idea. If they are abusive with another account deactivate that one as well.

Besides, there's a way around that rule. Why have a rule that you can't enforce?

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The rule can be enforced. It may take some time to discover a second account, but, like a misbehaving child always eventually gets found out, it would be found out as well. And ALL accounts for that person would be banned. Any subsequent accounts that manage to slip through would also be banned.

I believe the 'mod' accounts have more permissions and access than regular user accounts. It makes sense for them to have separate accounts for that reason as well as the 'speaking as a mod' reason Richard mentioned. It's not merely for their convenience.

Depending on the permissions set up, the administrator and moderators can see more than just the user names, so CAN enforce the rules that are established, even if the general user cannot connect the two.

You don't have to be abusive with multiple accounts in order to cause chaos or create trust issues. I missed whatever might have happened here to bring up the need for the rule, but I see no reason to change it.

You're once again determined to see no one's view but your own, so taking the time to give an explanation or examples from past interactions.

I am confused why it would matter one bit if a person had 20 accounts or 1.

winds55 wrote:

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You're once again determined to see no one's view but your own, so taking the time to give an explanation or examples from past interactions.

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Is this a complete thought? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

OR rainy wrote:

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Semantics does not change that the purpose of a mod account is for the function of the board as a whole....your second account would be for your use only to benefit you only so no they are and would not be the same thing.

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Of course it would benefit me :/ who else would my account benefit?

I could make a 2nd account without permission or I could petition a rule change. I chose the latter.

dqm either wrote:

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OR rainy wrote:

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Semantics does not change that the purpose of a mod account is for the function of the board as a whole....your second account would be for your use only to benefit you only so no they are and would not be the same thing.

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Of course it would benefit me :/ who else would my account benefit?

I could make a 2nd account without permission or I could petition a rule change. I chose the latter.

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 Oh please, you piss and moan about the mods having two accounts so why can't everyone, and suddenly you're pretending you weren't treating the two as equal?  Give us a break - you overestimate the level of gullibility here.

winds55 wrote:

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dqm either wrote:

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winds55 wrote:

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You're once again determined to see no one's view but your own, so taking the time to give an explanation or examples from past interactions.

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Is this a complete thought? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

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 add "would be a waste of energy".   And I'm pretty sure, even without me completing the sentence, you knew exactly what was meant. 

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 Actually I didn't.  I can't read your mind.  If you want me to know what you mean you're going to have to tell me.  I'm not that invested in finishing your sentences for you.

Actually it comes across as more of a two year old whining...

"but why...., but they have one...., etc"

Sorry-I missed that .... You know DQM....wanting to request a rule change, generally means that you don't go around insulting those who would support a rule change.....

Right but you are the only one wanting/requesting it...no one else. And your reasons were only geared toward you.

One suggestion would be to open a thread about the IDEA of a rule change... maybe with a question to the members about a rule change, discuss the change and then vote on the change.... THEN post a petition for it.

Posting a petition FIRST makes it more of a "me, this is what I want" issue.

I don't understand what people mean when they say 'secret' accounts. How is an account secret? If someone is trolling they're trolling. That's not a secret either. I suppose it could be a matter of opinion what constitutes trolling but what a person posts is out in the open for everyone to see so I'm not understanding this concept of 'secret' accounts.

You want to get all technical  quitcherbitchin isn't a word either.

-- Edited by dqm either on Tuesday 8th of January 2013 12:48:16 AM

1) you are assuming that people would be open and honest about their having multiple accounts and not use it to troll and create chaos, mayhem, and discord
2) that the culture and community on that other board is similar to our board which would make the "hydras" as being a possibility
3) that the majority of mafia members care about having separate avatars for their "board posts" and "mafia posts"
4) secret does not equal your interpretation of secret
5) semantics is not helping you to convince people that they should support your call to change a rule (a rule by the way that was not voted in place but added by those who made/moderate the board)
6) winds was correct in her assertion on the futility of explaining something to you when you will only piecemeal it to find nuggets to use to support your desire to change a rule to benefit you (while saying it is to benefit everyone)...

OR rainy wrote:

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1) you are assuming that people would be open and honest about their having multiple accounts and not use it to troll and create chaos, mayhem, and discord

If the mod's claim that they can tell when someone has multiple accounts is true then they'd already know and it would be open and honest.  And a person doesn't need more than one account to create chaos, mayhem or discord.  You can only type on one at a time.  If one hydra is being rude or breaking a rule the person could lose that head.  If they want to keep the head they'll knock off the behavior. If they don't care about losing it then lop it off and be done with it.  If they're respectful under their other head problem solved.  If they're not, lop that one off too.

2) that the culture and community on that other board is similar to our board which would make the "hydras" as being a possibility

As a member of both communitites I assure you that I'm not assuming that the cultures are the same AT ALL because they aren't.  Not even close. It's so "not even close" that the reason they want hydras isn't even relevant on this board.  There are other reasons that they have them that wouldn't even makes sense unless you were a member there so I didn't even bring those up.  As for it being a possibility; things are always possible unless they're impossible.  It's not impossible to have have a hydra on this site (or is it "to be a hydra"? since we're getting all grammatically correct up in here.) 

3) that the majority of mafia members care about having separate avatars for their "board posts" and "mafia posts"

Um no.  I'm assuming that the rule change would be across the board not just for mafia players. 

4) secret does not equal your interpretation of secret

I don't think I gave an interpretation of secret.  I asked what you meant by secret and you didn't say. 

5) semantics is not helping you to convince people that they should support your call to change a rule (a rule by the way that was not voted in place but added by those who made/moderate the board)

Is this still an assumption I'm making or you making a definitive statement because my response changes depending...  for the record I realize that it wasn't voted into place and I didn't ask for a vote, call for a vote or say anything about voting.  I petitioned (which is another word for asking an authority for something) for a rule change.

6) winds was correct in her assertion on the futility of explaining something to you when you will only piecemeal it to find nuggets to use to support your desire to change a rule to benefit you (while saying it is to benefit everyone)...

I'm certain that this isn't an assumption of mine.

So to answer...

Of course I'm going to find things to support my pov.  Why would I bring it up if I wasn't willing to give reasons that I think are valid? 
Also, I didn't say that the rule would "benefit" everyone.  I said it would apply equally to everyone.  As some people have noted they wouldn't hydra as it would be a hassle.  And others have commented that they don't see a problem with it at all and some don't see a problem with it as long as certain conditions are met.

You address the futility of explaining something to me and of course it's futile if you never do explain it.  I asked what was meant by secret accounts or false accounts and didn't get an explanation.  Instead you choose to insult me --and then accuse me of insulting others-- when I had done nothing of the kind. 

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Papa Bear wrote:

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DQM, I realize that like minds can disagree, but I categorically and vehemently disagree with something you posted.

Spoiler

The plural of hydras is "hydrae." PERIOD.

I realize other boards don't see it that way. They're wrong.

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I think of it this way.  If I was a hydra with six heads and you were a hydra with twenty heads we would be two hydrae with 26 heads.

But if I'm a hydra and I have six heads my heads are not hydrae my heads are hydras.

Don't know why I seperate it in my (one) head that way but I do.

dqm either wrote:

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OR rainy wrote:

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1) you are assuming that people would be open and honest about their having multiple accounts and not use it to troll and create chaos, mayhem, and discord

If the mod's claim that they can tell when someone has multiple accounts is true then they'd already know and it would be open and honest.  And a person doesn't need more than one account to create chaos, mayhem or discord.  You can only type on one at a time.  If one hydra is being rude or breaking a rule the person could lose that head.  If they want to keep the head they'll knock off the behavior. If they don't care about losing it then lop it off and be done with it.  If they're respectful under their other head problem solved.  If they're not, lop that one off too.

Remainder spoilered due to irrelevancy to MY post - RichardInTN

Spoiler

2) that the culture and community on that other board is similar to our board which would make the "hydras" as being a possibility

As a member of both communitites I assure you that I'm not assuming that the cultures are the same AT ALL because they aren't.  Not even close. It's so "not even close" that the reason they want hydras isn't even relevant on this board.  There are other reasons that they have them that wouldn't even makes sense unless you were a member there so I didn't even bring those up.  As for it being a possibility; things are always possible unless they're impossible.  It's not impossible to have have a hydra on this site (or is it "to be a hydra"? since we're getting all grammatically correct up in here.) 

3) that the majority of mafia members care about having separate avatars for their "board posts" and "mafia posts"

Um no.  I'm assuming that the rule change would be across the board not just for mafia players. 

4) secret does not equal your interpretation of secret

I don't think I gave an interpretation of secret.  I asked what you meant by secret and you didn't say. 

5) semantics is not helping you to convince people that they should support your call to change a rule (a rule by the way that was not voted in place but added by those who made/moderate the board)

Is this still an assumption I'm making or you making a definitive statement because my response changes depending...  for the record I realize that it wasn't voted into place and I didn't ask for a vote, call for a vote or say anything about voting.  I petitioned (which is another word for asking an authority for something) for a rule change.

6) winds was correct in her assertion on the futility of explaining something to you when you will only piecemeal it to find nuggets to use to support your desire to change a rule to benefit you (while saying it is to benefit everyone)...

I'm certain that this isn't an assumption of mine.

So to answer...

Of course I'm going to find things to support my pov.  Why would I bring it up if I wasn't willing to give reasons that I think are valid? 
Also, I didn't say that the rule would "benefit" everyone.  I said it would apply equally to everyone.  As some people have noted they wouldn't hydra as it would be a hassle.  And others have commented that they don't see a problem with it at all and some don't see a problem with it as long as certain conditions are met.

You address the futility of explaining something to me and of course it's futile if you never do explain it.  I asked what was meant by secret accounts or false accounts and didn't get an explanation.  Instead you choose to insult me --and then accuse me of insulting others-- when I had done nothing of the kind. 

 

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My comment here is in response to dqm's answer to OR Rainy's post.

Just because the Mods CAN figure out who has multiple accounts doesn't mean we WANT to go hunting for extra accounts every time we log in. It's not like Activeboard has a secret "Mods Only" page that tells us at a glance. It's a process. It can take time. It's only worth doing if a problem gets pointed out or a violation occurrs.

Ohhhh, that is different.

I'd say in this case a hydra is choosing among his heads, but now I'm just being a pest.

OR rainy wrote:

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Well I suppose that if the mods were paid for forty hours a week broken down into three shifts a day, seven days a week then yeah....they could totally spend their days trawling the board to prevent misuse and abuse.....

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The mods don't need to go searching the board for misuse or abuse. If someone is being harrased tbey can report it. No searching neccesary as the mod will be directed to the appropriate post and they can deal with it. I still don't see how that answers the 'secret' account or 'false' account question. Whatever account is being abusive should be dealt with. If a person is an absolute @ss and they can't be nice under any account then cut them off everytime they attack.

That's not asking the mods to do any more work than they do now.

dqm either wrote:

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I like the way some of the players change their avatars for the mafia games.  I mentioned a while back that I was going to create another account so that I can have one dedicated to mafia and was reminded that we have a one account per user rule.

 

1.  I'd like to petition for a rule change.

yep, you asked

2.  I see no benefit to banning a person from having multiple accounts as long as all accounts are held to the same standard of behaviour. 

because previous history has shown that others will misuse it, create hurt and other issues for the board which leads to people leaving and mistrust

3.  It's my understanding that Mods have more than one account for diffent reasons and I respect that.

they have a mod account to do mod stuff and a personal account to do their personal stuff. Their mod account is for moderating the board for the benefit of the board not because they thought it would be fun to but as part of their agreement to moderate

4.  If mods can be trusted not to abuse their dual accounts I think regular members should be entrusted the same.

answered already. Why open up the board to possible chaos and hurt because you want to have multiple personalities on the board (and no not in the mental health way)

5.  Anyone could get around the rule if they wanted. It makes no sense to have a rule that you can't enforce.

anyone can do pretty much anything they want - the point of the rule is to ensure that if some ass decides to do it then the mods can step in and try and stop it. If the person continues then they can ban them for trolling or whatever rules they are breaking. That is -you know -called moderating

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As for secret - it is secret to those on this board who is posting...as in it is a message board so we take a person saying they are so and so as they are soandso. So yea it is a secret if someone comes on saying they are using a second one for -fill in the blank reason -but actually they are not then by the time anyone realizes, a lot of damage can be done. Do I trust the peeps on this board? For the most part yes. There are a couple of ones that are "newer" here and so I am unsure if they are new or just decided to come back under a different name. do I think it is possible that there could be one person with multiple ID's -yes and when they get caught I totally expect our mods to take care of it. As for the using info to support your petition-you are electing to ignore the valid reasons we are giving as not being fair because they don't support YOUR desire to have the rule change. You did not start a thread like Richard suggested to see if anyone would want it. You decided because YOU wanted it that that was enough reason to petition to change the rule. As for the rest of it-the rest of the board will decide if they want to move it forward (which I would assume means that enough people want it) by suggesting it to the mods and great poobah and they will decide whether it is something they want to consider or change. Also, as I have said before - how you approach and phrase your topic determines how others will respond. While you may not think you have been insulting to others, your posts have certainly come across that way. So I apologize for anything I have said in this thread that you found insulting.

1) Petition=request, demand, action
Question=pondering, wondering, etc

One leads to hey what do you think of this and a discussion while The other is, I want to change something for these reasons so tell me why I am wrong for thinking this is an awesome petition...

Different outcomes.

2) As for "you wanted it comment" = again

"hey I was wondering if we might talk about how people on the board would feel about petitioning a rule change"

As opposed to

"I think this is a silly rule because you suppose that we can't be trusted, especially as the mods have a second one and they are not any better than us and why have a rule that can't be enforced -you should trust that we can govern ourselves, so I am petitioning to have this rule be changed"

3) clear as mud

We already are acting on the honor system. So anyone at anytime can come on here and say "hey, I changed my name to this" and either two things will happen 1-previous name comes on and says "what the ****-no that is not true" or "previous name doesn't come back". So if someone can come on and say " hey-this is my mafia name, this is my regular posting name,this is my third choice, etc" then it gets confusing, and/or someone can come on and pretend to be you by claiming that it is another name and before we and you know it, they break every board rule before getting banned then you get to spend time trying to prove you are who you say you are, and/or you use it to creates false identity to target other posters then claim it was hijacked so hopefully you won't get banned, and ETC.

AND because it has happened before with people creating false identities to be hurtful to others-yep, a natural consequence is that we don't get multiple identities on the board

4) I -personally- have absolutely no desire to try and remember the multiple identities depending on the mood, thread, etc of that poster.

5) I don't see a reason to create additional work for our mods to deal with something that was ruled against for a good reason

6) we can debate this ad naseum but you won't change your mind and I won't change mine so whatever.