None of this is any of my business (but since when has that stopped up from bringing up family topics!)
My sister's daughter, K, turned 23 in Jan. and graduated college w/a degree in Interior Design last May. (BG: My sister and I don't get along, never have, and perhaps that colors my perception a little). Niece is her only child.
K has never, and I mean never held a regular, working, paid-job, not even babysitting as a teen, nothing part time after school or during summers, nothing. She's 23 and has never had to file a tax return. Parents paid for everything regarding college. She did do a non-paid summer internship w/an interior design firm for two summers while in college. She has spent most of her time since graduation going on trips that her parents pay for. Of course, she lives at home and mommy and daddy pay for everything. Last I heard, she had a learner's permit, but no license. Most of her friends have some kind of paying job by now, even if it's not yet in their field or their dream job, but you know, something where they can gain work experience, make some money, contribute to family expenses if they live at home, etc.
In addition to her non-paid internships, the only other thing on her resume is her volunteer work for a youth evangelical organization which she has specifically put "volunteer for organization so that others may know Christ.". It's my opinion, but I wouldn't share it because I haven't been asked, that one should keep anything that religious off her resume unless one is going for a job in the religious sector (chaplain, teacher, pastor, etc.). Also, she has a typo in her resume.
She hasn't been getting any interviews and her mother blames it on the economy. (She's also only looking for jobs in interior design and won't work at retail, etc. in the meantime. Since she doesn't have to work, I guess she can be more picky.) I don't see her moving out on her own anytime soon, unless parents are footing the bill, which I'm sure my sister would do if her daughter asked her to. That way, she could really have her cake and eat it, too. She'd get to live on her own and wouldn't have to do anything, and all her bills would be paid.
My sister and her husband are not rich people. They are your basic middle-class family.
I say nothing, because it's not my business. Still, I can't say I'm happy w/this situation and I do think niece is spoiled. 23 and never having worked at any paid job seems a bit much to me.
Would any of you have let your children reach the age of 23 and never held any kind of job? Just wondering...
-- Edited by iluvsuomi1989 on Monday 10th of March 2014 03:22:56 PM
That's just ludicrous. IMO, your Niece has been sabotaged by her parents. A 23 year old with no driver's license and has never held a job? As she gets older, that's going to get harder and harder to explain. How many people will hire a 30 year old with no job history?
IMO, a lot of people use Interior Design as a pretend job. I know that there are many people who do it as a real job, but I also know a woman whose husband runs his own business. They are quite wealthy, and she has a "business" as an interior decorator. Her 2 clients are her husband's business and her husband's hunting club. So IMO that's a pretend business.
It sounds fun - picking out wallpaper and carpet, spending other people's money. It doesn't sound like work, though of course it actually is. But I do think that field is heavily infested with pretenders. Kind of like photography - there are legitimate photographers who are very skilled at what they do and who will bust their butts to take great pictures of your event. And there are hobbyists with an expensive camera who think that being a wedding photographer means showing up at a wedding, snapping a bunch of pics and eating cake.
So IMO that's the reason your Niece chose Interior Design. She didn't choose something that felt like work or that had objective measures of skill.
That's just ludicrous. IMO, your Niece has been sabotaged by her parents. A 23 year old with no driver's license and has never held a job? As she gets older, that's going to get harder and harder to explain. How many people will hire a 30 year old with no job history?
IMO, a lot of people use Interior Design as a pretend job. I know that there are many people who do it as a real job, but I also know a woman whose husband runs his own business. They are quite wealthy, and she has a "business" as an interior decorator. Her 2 clients are her husband's business and her husband's hunting club. So IMO that's a pretend business.
It sounds fun - picking out wallpaper and carpet, spending other people's money. It doesn't sound like work, though of course it actually is. But I do think that field is heavily infested with pretenders. Kind of like photography - there are legitimate photographers who are very skilled at what they do and who will bust their butts to take great pictures of your event. And there are hobbyists with an expensive camera who think that being a wedding photographer means showing up at a wedding, snapping a bunch of pics and eating cake.
So IMO that's the reason your Niece chose Interior Design. She didn't choose something that felt like work or that had objective measures of skill.
Yes, because it's something she could "dabble" in while waiting for Prince Charming to come along and sweep her off her feet. I stopped saying anything to my sister about it years ago, because she is one big enabler and always making excuses for her DD. She keeps talking about all the wonderful volunteer work that DD has on her resume; what she doesn't realize is that volunteer work is a plus--it's not a substitute for paid work experience. Niece refused to even consider jobs like working in retail or at a BK when she was younger. If I remember correctly, she said, "Humph! I can do better than that!" "Ummm...no Niecey dear, you can't. You have no paid experience while others have tons. Why on God's green earth would anyone want to hire you when they are so many more experienced people out there?"
She said the above when she was about 17; she also turned down a job in college working in the kitchen that would have paid $10 an hour. $10 an hour in the state of Virginia, where she went to college, would have been a nice chunk of change to rattle around as a college student. But, since mommy and daddy paid for everything (including spring break vacations) there was no incentive to take this job. This job would have looked good on a resume, because kitchen work is hard and prospective employers would have noticed it.
I think that as a teenager, volunteer work can replace paid work. It teaches the same skills (what are often called "soft" skills) - being on time, following instructions, working with others, being responsible, etc. But at 23? Nope. At that point, you need to get a real job ASAP.
Well the internship was a job. Just because it was not paid does not mean it was not a job. Actually doing internship in your chosen field while in college is normally a good way to get your foot in the door and get some experience so you can get a job in that field when you are done with your degree. So that was actually a good move on her part.
As for not babysitting or working some other kind of job when she was in high school again it can all depend. I did do babysitting jobs but maybe she was not good with kids. Not everyone is. But other than that I never did get a paid job in high school. My parents wanted me to concentrate on my studies and my extracurriculars. I see nothing wrong with that. If we can afford it I would like to do the same for my kids.
In college I did get some scholarships. My parents paid for me to live with them and for my school while I was in college. They again wanted me to concentrate on my studies. They knew working a job while in school would only sacrifice my grades. I did work summers though when I was not in school. One Summer I did classes though so I did not work that summer.
So to a point, if it is because they want her to concentrate on her studies or do an internship or volunteer work, those are all good things. I would not knock someone for doing those things. If they have the means that she does not have to work, that is good for them. However you can still raise a responsible ready for the workplace young adult without actually making her work for years. It is possible. I want my kids to enjoy their youth and so I would hate to have to make them work all the time. My poor friend was made to work from the minute she turned 15 and her parents took all her money to buy cokes and cigarettes. If you compare those parents to your Sister, I think your Sister comes out ahead personally. They had her working instead of doing good in school. They did not care if she got her homework done as long as she brought home money they could steal from her.
The economy does suck right now. She is not the only newly graduated young adult who can't find a job in their field. She is like one among millions honestly. So now she is going to have to keep trying to find a job in her field or have to be underemployed and find another job or go back to school for something else easier to find a job in. Which is what tons of other people are having to do.
As far as the religious stuff on the resume, yes, that is bad. Not wrong to list volunteer work if it is relative to the job you are applying for, but don't have to make it religious.
but that is my house. WOW, all my kids started working around 14-15 by theior choices
DS27 bought a new car at 19 (I did co-sign) and he paid off in two years, then he bought his first house (no co-signer) at 20, and has truck car and two MC all paid off (well not house)
and DS22 just closed on his 10 acres of land and new house a week ago, owns a nice dually truck and fifth wheel camper
DS20 just bought a newer (2008) truck and lives in town and just got his CDL license to drive big trucks
All boys have really good paying jobs,
DD18 is paying her way through college with scholarships and working at Walmart and still getting good grades, she just paid off her 2008 Ford Escape. She will be getting an apt in college town this summer and not coming home but working in college town to save for school.
DD16 is looking for a job not in fast food, but has worked at KFC and DQ since the day after she turned 14.
At our house if you want to drive YOU pay for car, and pay insurance and fuel. It is a privilege not a right.
This is how it worked at our house and not saying it has to be this way for kids to be a success, this is just how we did it.
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~ 4 Wheels Move the Body~ ~2 Wheels Move the Soul~
I think that as a teenager, volunteer work can replace paid work. It teaches the same skills (what are often called "soft" skills) - being on time, following instructions, working with others, being responsible, etc. But at 23? Nope. At that point, you need to get a real job ASAP.
Not happening any time soon, I can tell you that. No urgency, not as long as Mommy and Daddy still pay the bills. My niece is very influenced by what her friends do, and at some point, all her friends are going to be getting real jobs, moving away, etc. and I think they're going to question why K is still living at home w/o working. The ones who live near her are going to get tired of chauffering her around w/o her ever reciprocating. I think it might dawn on her then that it's time to grow up.
Honestly the no drivers license is more concerning than anything else barring that you live in a city with super good public transit like NYC. Otherwise, that is the #1 thing she needs to be working on. They won't hire you without knowing you can get yourself to work reliably every day. But if you live in a city with good public transit, driving really does not matter as much even though having a license will still be a good idea.
but that is my house. WOW, all my kids started working around 14-15 by theior choices
DS27 bought a new car at 19 (I did co-sign) and he paid off in two years, then he bought his first house (no co-signer) at 20, and has truck car and two MC all paid off (well not house)
and DS22 just closed on his 10 acres of land and new house a week ago, owns a nice dually truck and fifth wheel camper
DS20 just bought a newer (2008) truck and lives in town and just got his CDL license to drive big trucks
All boys have really good paying jobs,
DD18 is paying her way through college with scholarships and working at Walmart and still getting good grades, she just paid off her 2008 Ford Escape. She will be getting an apt in college town this summer and not coming home but working in college town to save for school.
DD16 is looking for a job not in fast food, but has worked at KFC and DQ since the day after she turned 14.
At our house if you want to drive YOU pay for car, and pay insurance and fuel. It is a privilege not a right.
This is how it worked at our house and not saying it has to be this way for kids to be a success, this is just how we did it.
I admire how you did it and it's your mentioning that your DD was working and attending college fulltime that spurred this thread. I don't understand that concept that working your way through school means you sacrifice your grades. I call BS on that! I worked all through college and still made the dean's list. And, while I am bright, I am no rocket scientist. It's a matter of priorities. Niece spent her spare time while in school having a great social life. It would not have killed her to have spent 12 hours a week at a job (12 hours I believe being the minimum for a work-study student and although she wasn't one due to her parents largess, it obviously can be done, if others are doing it, e.g., work, have a social like, and still get good grades. Some kids even do all that and volunteer and still manage nicely. It's a matter of balance and choosing your priorities wisely). I was fortunate enough to have worked in my chosen field at the time, marketing, so by the time I graduated, I had four years of working in my field to put on my resume along with a high GPA and school activities.
IMHO, parents who foot the entire bill for every thing a kid wants once they are past the age of 18, are doing their kids no favor. Some things should come w/a little hardship attached. I'm not saying sell your kids into slavery, but making them pay for extras like a car or clothes or a vacation, while they are still going to school, at the very least during the summer, makes them appreciate things more.
It all depends on the major you are majoring in, the difficulty of the school, just your overall how well you do with school and multi-tasking, etc. If I get too stressed out I shut down. So managing a job plus a hard major would probably have been too much for me. It is hard to find jobs that only want to work you 12 hours a week. They are going to want you there 25 or more hours a week.
But I still had responsibilities. My father made me his live in maid essentially. I was in charge of keeping the entire house clean on top of school. So that was practically a job there as he stopped doing any cleaning so it was all on me and he wanted it spotless.
All I can say is what I know and the students in my major classes that also worked, did not do as well as I did. They were the ones always turning in assignments late or showing up late or not as prepared for class. I always had higher grades than them. It was a small group of students and I knew all of them pretty well and so I knew which ones worked outside of school. Also why I knew their grades because we always discussed them. They always came to me for help.
Every student and every family is different. I say do what works for your family and yourself. Not all college students have to work to be able to get a job out of college. I was able to get a job out of college. Not the one I wanted exactly, but I did get one. Same for DH. He did not work during school either except for internships and summers when he was off of school. He normally would have gotten hired from the internship but that year they cut the budget and could not hire any of the interns. That is however how my friend got his job after college was through an internship. He also did not work while in college all the way through grad school.
DH and I both had to earn and pay our own expenses from Summer work as far as clothing, fun money, gas, make up, shoes, etc. Our parents only paid for a roof over our heads, school fees and food.
-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Monday 10th of March 2014 04:30:02 PM
but that is my house. WOW, all my kids started working around 14-15 by theior choices
DS27 bought a new car at 19 (I did co-sign) and he paid off in two years, then he bought his first house (no co-signer) at 20, and has truck car and two MC all paid off (well not house)
and DS22 just closed on his 10 acres of land and new house a week ago, owns a nice dually truck and fifth wheel camper
DS20 just bought a newer (2008) truck and lives in town and just got his CDL license to drive big trucks
All boys have really good paying jobs,
DD18 is paying her way through college with scholarships and working at Walmart and still getting good grades, she just paid off her 2008 Ford Escape. She will be getting an apt in college town this summer and not coming home but working in college town to save for school.
DD16 is looking for a job not in fast food, but has worked at KFC and DQ since the day after she turned 14.
At our house if you want to drive YOU pay for car, and pay insurance and fuel. It is a privilege not a right.
This is how it worked at our house and not saying it has to be this way for kids to be a success, this is just how we did it.
I admire how you did it and it's your mentioning that your DD was working and attending college fulltime that spurred this thread. I don't understand that concept that working your way through school means you sacrifice your grades. I call BS on that! I worked all through college and still made the dean's list. And, while I am bright, I am no rocket scientist. It's a matter of priorities. Niece spent her spare time while in school having a great social life. It would not have killed her to have spent 12 hours a week at a job (12 hours I believe being the minimum for a work-study student and although she wasn't one due to her parents largess, it obviously can be done, if others are doing it, e.g., work, have a social like, and still get good grades. Some kids even do all that and volunteer and still manage nicely. It's a matter of balance and choosing your priorities wisely). I was fortunate enough to have worked in my chosen field at the time, marketing, so by the time I graduated, I had four years of working in my field to put on my resume along with a high GPA and school activities.
IMHO, parents who foot the entire bill for every thing a kid wants once they are past the age of 18, are doing their kids no favor. Some things should come w/a little hardship attached. I'm not saying sell your kids into slavery, but making them pay for extras like a car or clothes or a vacation, while they are still going to school, at the very least during the summer, makes them appreciate things more.
I added up the hours in college that it would take for me to do classes, the studying in the science classes I needed (the recommended from the school was 3 hours of studying per lecture credit), work (25-35 hours) transport, chores etc and it only left me with 3.5 hours of sleep a night on average. Granted I also did have to do research hours to try to get into grad school as well. That does harm your grades when you have to chose between studying and sleep. It is one thing to work 12-15 hours a week during school, which is pretty much two days (or friday/saturday night) vs working 4-5 days a week just to pay the bills. My grades went up when I turned 24 and could cut my work hours down to 12-15.
-- Edited by Aurora on Monday 10th of March 2014 04:47:37 PM
I added up the hours in college that it would take for me to do classes, the studying in the science classes I needed (the recommended from the school was 3 hours of studying per lecture credit), work (25-35 hours) transport, chores etc and it only left me with 3.5 hours of sleep a night on average. Granted I also did have to do research hours to try to get into grad school as well. That does harm your grades when you have to chose between studying and sleep. It is one thing to work 12-15 hours a week during school, which is pretty much two days (or friday/saturday night) vs working 4-5 days a week just to pay the bills. My grades went up when I turned 24 and could cut my work hours down to 12-15.
-- Edited by Aurora on Monday 10th of March 2014 04:47:37 PM
Wow, I only worked about 16-20 hours a week and full time during summers. 25-35 is a lot--too much I think for a full time college student. That's more like having a fultime job and carrying a full course load. If I had done what you did, then yes, my grades would have suffered.
I remember taking an evening class once and there were two women having a conversation before class (this was a college where business was the primary majors of most students, ie, finance, accounting, marketing, economics, etc.). One asks they other, "So, how many credits you taking this semesters; other woman responds, 12. 1st woman asks what her major is; 2nd woman says Accounting. As the convesation between the 2 continues, I hear that 2nd women, in addition to taking 12 credits a semester in accounting, works a fulltime job, and is a single mom w/four kids living at home and made the Dean's List!
I don't know how she did it. I'm sure she was very disciplined and her children must have helped out w/household chores and the older ones took care of the younger ones, etc. But, wow, I don't think I could have done that. After that, I never complained about my course load and my work hours.
"In addition to her non-paid internships, the only other thing on her resume is her volunteer work for a youth evangelical organization which she has specifically put "volunteer for organization so that others may know Christ.". "
Somewhat beside the point, but I do wonder the best way to put something like this on your resume. Some people might believe "helping others to know Christ" to be a worthwhile goal, and others not so much. (Not trying to start a religious debate here.) I think that she might be better served to list her responsibilities and tasks rather than, or in addition to, "so others may know Christ."
I'm not very religious, so if a person going door-to-door evangilizing, I don't consider that to be a plus, unless I want a door-to-door salesperson. OTOH, if this person has done things such as organize bake sales, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls, etc, I would feel like they had learned skills other than talking about Christ.
"In addition to her non-paid internships, the only other thing on her resume is her volunteer work for a youth evangelical organization which she has specifically put "volunteer for organization so that others may know Christ.". "
Somewhat beside the point, but I do wonder the best way to put something like this on your resume. Some people might believe "helping others to know Christ" to be a worthwhile goal, and others not so much. (Not trying to start a religious debate here.) I think that she might be better served to list her responsibilities and tasks rather than, or in addition to, "so others may know Christ."
I'm not very religious, so if a person going door-to-door evangilizing, I don't consider that to be a plus, unless I want a door-to-door salesperson. OTOH, if this person has done things such as organize bake sales, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls, etc, I would feel like they had learned skills other than talking about Christ.
Basically, it's permitted her to go to Europe twice and attend conventions where she could socialize w/other like-minded youth. No, no bake sales, no envelope stuffing, etc. That would involve work and wouldn't permit her to socialize. I believe that unless you're specifically going for a job of a religious nature, that no employer needs to know what religion you are. At least, that's the advice I've been given by career professionals. Others may disagree.
One of the things we look for with applicants for our unpaid internships is some sort of paid job in the past. They tend to have better work ethics. We have one intern right now with nothing but volunteer work and other internships and he is totally not working out for us.
One of the things we look for with applicants for our unpaid internships is some sort of paid job in the past. They tend to have better work ethics. We have one intern right now with nothing but volunteer work and other internships and he is totally not working out for us.
Perhaps it could be that most volunteer jobs don't involve a 40-hr. a week commitment. To someone used to volunteering one or two evenings a week, 8 hrs. a day, 5 days a week would be culture shock.
"In addition to her non-paid internships, the only other thing on her resume is her volunteer work for a youth evangelical organization which she has specifically put "volunteer for organization so that others may know Christ.". "
Somewhat beside the point, but I do wonder the best way to put something like this on your resume. Some people might believe "helping others to know Christ" to be a worthwhile goal, and others not so much. (Not trying to start a religious debate here.) I think that she might be better served to list her responsibilities and tasks rather than, or in addition to, "so others may know Christ."
I'm not very religious, so if a person going door-to-door evangilizing, I don't consider that to be a plus, unless I want a door-to-door salesperson. OTOH, if this person has done things such as organize bake sales, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls, etc, I would feel like they had learned skills other than talking about Christ.
I agree. It should be about listing the job experience she got whether it was handling the mailing list and database or being a greeter so being good at networking with people or working with kids in the nursery or helping plan the fall festival so event planning skills. That would be more useful to a potential employer than I brought people to Christ. That tells me nothing.
"In addition to her non-paid internships, the only other thing on her resume is her volunteer work for a youth evangelical organization which she has specifically put "volunteer for organization so that others may know Christ.". "
Somewhat beside the point, but I do wonder the best way to put something like this on your resume. Some people might believe "helping others to know Christ" to be a worthwhile goal, and others not so much. (Not trying to start a religious debate here.) I think that she might be better served to list her responsibilities and tasks rather than, or in addition to, "so others may know Christ."
I'm not very religious, so if a person going door-to-door evangilizing, I don't consider that to be a plus, unless I want a door-to-door salesperson. OTOH, if this person has done things such as organize bake sales, stuffed envelopes, made phone calls, etc, I would feel like they had learned skills other than talking about Christ.
Basically, it's permitted her to go to Europe twice and attend conventions where she could socialize w/other like-minded youth. No, no bake sales, no envelope stuffing, etc. That would involve work and wouldn't permit her to socialize. I believe that unless you're specifically going for a job of a religious nature, that no employer needs to know what religion you are. At least, that's the advice I've been given by career professionals. Others may disagree.
So it doesn't sound like she actually did much (if any) volunteer work. Sounds more like she was involved in a Youth Group.
I think it's odd that a 23 year old doesn't have a driver's license and has never had a paid job.
She had the internship, but that is usually a graduation requirment, isn't it? I understand needing/wanting to focus on studies, but never even a summer job, or something on weekends? Not sure I would hire someone that age with no work experience.
But, like some of you say, that's just me.
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