Invisapeeps 2.0

Forty-two · Guru

I don't see dirt

Evil Stepmother · Guru

That would irritate me too. Isn't light cleaning part of the duties of an au pair? At the very least you'd think any adult in the household would pick up the towels when they were in the bathroom. Also I'd think twice before asking her to make me a sandwich or actually any kind of food, if she's not washing her hands when necessary.

Balloon Animal · Guru

Some people do have the not seeing the mess gene. A lot of men have it, like my husband. It might be a good idea to specifically spell out exactly what things you want her to do and then she can't claim she didn't know like tell her specifically to check to make sure DS hangs his towels back up.

ana · Senior Member

I don't think there is a gene that makes one not see mess. It is a "I don't give a ****" attitude. And attitudes are learned. If a grown adult walks over a mess, they expect someone else to clean it up. In my house, that does not fly.

And saying that men have this deficiency is just buying into the myth that they don't see the mess. They see it. They know that someone else will clean it up if they ignore it.

As an au pair, I have no idea how she expect NOT to be fired for an attitude like that.

And not washing hands? Ick, and ew! She prepares your children's food doesn't she 42?

Balloon Animal · Guru

the not washing hands grosses me out more than anything else. blech. Maybe she is at least air or shake drying them and still washing them.

I don't know, you may be right about it being learned, but literally my son will have his foot touching something on the floor that he needs to pick up and when I tell him to pick it he just like moves his head back and forth and I can see him searching but does not notice it. I am just like WHAT! how can you not see that!

Forty-two · Guru

Ana so good to see you!!!

I do predict I will fire her but I will give her one more chance. The not seeing dirt was the second part of a blowout I had with her. It actually started yesterday around 10:30.

"AP, please get up and take DD1 to her charity event"

She comes downstairs after pulling herself out of bed and starts eating. I tell her she has to take DD! there at 11:00. She would be driving her 7 miles.

DD asks me "Why don't you take me?" I respond "I don't feel like it" AP says "You don't feel like it?" I told DD to get in the car and go.

I broke my cardinal rule on classiness and parent ing and DD1 never heard so me many expletives in her life from me. It was a cures laden drive all the way to her charity event.

When I got home I ripped the AP a new *******. She cried all day. I

I have to say her parent has failed her in all sorts of ways.

She told me her mother never taught her how to clean, she did not understand the concept of taking initiative. I told her when you go back home what are you going to do when you have a real job are you just going to sit around the office waiting for your boss to give you instructions every freaking day?

It was a long discussion but I predict I will be firing her.

Balloon Animal · Guru

That sucks 42. Sorry she seems to not be working out. It sounds like the only way to keep her on is you will have to specifically write her out a schedule of tasks and chores etc and then she will know exactly what to do and can't claim to not know. Which that may be too much hassle for you and I understand if it is. That seems like the only solution other than firing her.

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Sunday 27th of April 2014 04:04:48 PM

ana · Senior Member

BA, kids are different. They are still learning.

Please don't excuse your husband though. He sees the mess and chooses not to deal with it. Not cool in my book, but whatever works in your relationship.

Hey 42! I don't think I could have refrained from firing her on the spot! "You don't feel like it?" "That's your damn job missy!" And she was still in bed at 10:30 am? You are zen compared to what I would have been.

Aardvark · But my mom says I'm cool!

I think I see more dirt when it comes to my house than other people. I put a lot of pressure on myself to get the house spotless when people are coming, and because I'm a SAHM, I feel like I should have it neater more often. PM is always reminding me that I have a special needs toddler to deal with who likes to "help" with chores. I just feel embarrassed when people come in and I see dust that I missed, etc.

Forty-two · Guru

ana wrote:
BA, kids are different. They are still learning.

Please don't excuse your husband though. He sees the mess and chooses not to deal with it. Not cool in my book, but whatever works in your relationship.

Hey 42! I don't think I could have refrained from firing her on the spot! "You don't feel like it?" "That's your damn job missy!" And she was still in bed at 10:30 am? You are zen compared to what I would have been.

She is lucky that I missed my turn on the way home from dropping of DD, it gave me more time to settle down. But also getting an AP does not take two seconds so you would be foolish to just fire one willy nilly.

Forty-two · Guru

Aardvark wrote:
I think I see more dirt when it comes to my house than other people. I put a lot of pressure on myself to get the house spotless when people are coming, and because I'm a SAHM, I feel like I should have it neater more often. PM is always reminding me that I have a special needs toddler to deal with who likes to "help" with chores. I just feel embarrassed when people come in and I see dust that I missed, etc.

Aardvark I did not know you had a SN child, but I say that gives you a pass on some housekeeping duties even if your are a SAHM.

just hanging around · Senior Member

i don't see that you really have any other alternative, 42. you hired her to help you out; she's only adding to your load.

how much longer would her contract run? i don't remember; how long has she been here?

Forty-two · Guru

JHA she will be here until September.

just hanging around · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
JHA she will be here until September.

what happens to her if you fire her?

i really can understand that she doesn't know how to clean. and i suppose that it's part of that whole no-initiative thing that it never occurred to her to ask you to teach her what she needs to do...or to watch what you do and copy it. but she's got to get it together if she wants to stay.

Forty-two · Guru

JHA the woman has her own apartment back in Holland and she confessed it is a pig stye...no surprise there! If I kick her out she is out and has to find another home in two weeks through the agency or she goes back to Holland.

just hanging around · Senior Member

okay, so if you fire her, do you contact the agency you hired her from? can they find you another AP to replace her? is it part of the job description that an AP has to help clean? did she think she was coming for a paid vacation in the States for a year?

sorry to have so many questions...i never had an AP and know next to nothing about it.

Forty-two · Guru

I don't mind the questions at all. JHA she is my second AP since last summer, the last one left after her boyfriend got hit be a truck and was badly injured. I had new AP in two weeks. So I would have to be without an AP for maybe two to three weeks.

The AP is a lazy person who takes no initiative, which I told her. Yes she is adding to the load in terms of cleaning the house. I just find someone at her age acting like she does unbelievable. She cried all day yesterday because she could go into NYC and see her friends. Grow the eft up!

just hanging around · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
I don't mind the questions at all. JHA she is my second AP since last summer, the last one left after her boyfriend got hit be a truck and was badly injured. I had new AP in two weeks. So I would have to be without an AP for maybe two to three weeks.

The AP is a lazy person who takes no initiative, which I told her. Yes she is adding to the load in terms of cleaning the house. I just find someone at her age acting like she does unbelievable. She cried all day yesterday because she could go into NYC and see her friends. Grow the eft up!

well i guess now we know why she slept so late yesterday morning...she'd been partying the night before!

and she has no concept that this is a job. that she has to work for the room and board you supply, and the stipend you pay. does she really think that you spent the money to bring her over here so she could socialize for a year?

unfortunately, i think you're gonna need a new AP. hell, with the one you have, two weeks without one will be easier on your family than having her there! it'll certainly be less housework.

walking over the towels in the bathroom floor *grumble grumble* expecting YOU to do the job you asked HER to do *grumble grumble*.

oh hell no!

(is she still crying today?)

ana · Senior Member

I know it takes a while to get an AP 42, but someone like her would irk the hell out of me, and I would hire a maid and babysitter in the meantime until I could get a replacement. I just couldn't deal with an attitude like that!

Forty-two · Guru

JHA she had to go into the city for a class all day so I suspect she is not crying.

I am just proud of myself that I did not curse her out.

just hanging around · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
JHA she had to go into the city for a class all day so I suspect she is not crying.

I am just proud of myself that I did not curse her out.

i'm proud of you too. and frankly amazed at your fortitude. i'd have been in her room, picking her crap up off of the floor (surely that's where all of her clothes are, on the floor of her room), and cramming them willy nilly in her suitcases, lecturing all the while.

ana · Senior Member

just hanging around wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
JHA she had to go into the city for a class all day so I suspect she is not crying.

I am just proud of myself that I did not curse her out.
i'm proud of you too. and frankly amazed at your fortitude. i'd have been in her room, picking her crap up off of the floor (surely that's where all of her clothes are, on the floor of her room), and cramming them willy nilly in her suitcases, lecturing all the while.

JHA, I would totally do that too!

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
BA, kids are different. They are still learning.

Please don't excuse your husband though. He sees the mess and chooses not to deal with it. Not cool in my book, but whatever works in your relationship.

Hey 42! I don't think I could have refrained from firing her on the spot! "You don't feel like it?" "That's your damn job missy!" And she was still in bed at 10:30 am? You are zen compared to what I would have been.

Yup. I feel the same way.

I would (and have) fired people for responses like that. Granted it was a business and not a "live-in employee" situation like 42 has... but 42's Au Pair is still an employee.

Also worthy of note: unless her scheduled time to be active is like: You will be doing your housework/child-minding from 2PM to 10PM (or other odd late hours) there's no excuse other than deathly illness to still be in bed at that hour.

Forty-two · Guru

Guys if I fired the AP on the spot I would have to take my son to school in the morning even though I have an early meeting. I will also be traveling this week as will DH. You can't put a kid in daycare the first day you call them sometimes there is a wait list so I really cannot just up and fire her.

And seriously who the hell is in bed at that hour unless you are sick!

ana · Senior Member

I think you might have to make her a schedule and a list of chores.

Forty-two · Guru

Ana people suggested that but you can't predict things. For the towel example I could not predict that TB would pull all of the towels off of the wrack so I can't put that in her list of chores.

living revived · Senior Member

I'll admit, I often don't see certain types of mess- dust, light mess on the front of the cupboard or stove, etc. Because my parents NEVER EVER did any of that type of cleaning or required us to, it rarely pops up on my radar. If I spill something, I clean it up, but if it's the normal buildup, it takes me a while to realize it needs cleaning. (Yes, my parents' house is an absolute disaster.)

But hello. Towels on the floor? Kinda hard to miss! And she was way over the line with her attitude.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
Guys if I fired the AP on the spot I would have to take my son to school in the morning even though I have an early meeting. I will also be traveling this week as will DH. You can't put a kid in daycare the first day you call them sometimes there is a wait list so I really cannot just up and fire her.

And seriously who the hell is in bed at that hour unless you are sick!

If immediate firing is not an option... I would already be looking for a replacement... just without telling her that she was being replaced.

Is your state an "At Will" state where you can let someone go "without cause"? If so, when you DO let her go, just say "Your services are no longer needed" if she asks why, repeat "your services are no longer needed"... repeat as often as necessary.

Evil Stepmother · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
Ana people suggested that but you can't predict things. For the towel example I could not predict that TB would pull all of the towels off of the wrack so I can't put that in her list of chores.

Wouldn't "Keep the children's bathroom (or upstairs bathroom or whichever it is) tidy every day and clean and sanitize it weekly" cover most anything? Then maybe add a short list of what items to check for tidiness and what surfaces to clean each week.

It's a little hard to believe that someone who came from a placement company wouldn't do a reasonably good job. Before you said she was from a service I thought maybe she was a college girl you hired from an ad you placed yourself.

ana · Senior Member

Yup. I would keep her for the meantime but be calling the agency to find me a replacement pronto.

You're right 42, you can't be literal with housekeeping things if someone does not care to see what needs to be done.

I'm looking for a new cleaner. My old one stopped cleaning to take a ft job and this one does work ft and does cleaning on the side. I think I need someone who has the same standards as me. Surprisingly, it is not easy to find!

Forty-two · Guru

LR the attitude just about broke my "classy demeanor" I wanted to break ghetto on her, wag my head, get my finger in her face and use every expletive I knew, but instead I cleaned dirty posts in the sink while I dressed her down.

Richard I could fire her on the spot if I wanted to.

ES yes she came from an agency I know for the next AP I will ask different questions in the interview, that is for sure.

Cactus · Senior Member

I am sometimes not good at seeing dirt (similar to living revived) but I wouldn't go for that type of job. I don't know how much cleaning she expected to have to do but she should at least be cleaning up after herself and your son. I also think if you "don't see dirt" but have a position where you have to clean, you just have to make sure you clean thoroughly anyway, whether you see the dirt or not.
Also if she really isn't washing her hands that would bother me the most.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

I could over look the cleaning thing - but the attitude? No way.

If you have time, make her a daily list. I would also contact an agency and get their description of her duties, so you can both be clear and follow the rules. My cousin has an AP and from what I understand, their duties outside of childcare are very strictly limited.

And also, you can show the check list to the agency so they can see that your expectations were reasonable. You don't want to say, "She didn't keep the bathroom clean" and her to say, "I was expected to scrub the toilet with a toothbrush!"

jlbear71 · Veteran Member

Forty-two wrote:
Ana so good to see you!!!

I do predict I will fire her but I will give her one more chance. The not seeing dirt was the second part of a blowout I had with her. It actually started yesterday around 10:30.

"AP, please get up and take DD1 to her charity event"

She comes downstairs after pulling herself out of bed and starts eating. I tell her she has to take DD! there at 11:00. She would be driving her 7 miles.

DD asks me "Why don't you take me?" I respond "I don't feel like it" AP says "You don't feel like it?" I told DD to get in the car and go.

I broke my cardinal rule on classiness and parent ing and DD1 never heard so me many expletives in her life from me. It was a cures laden drive all the way to her charity event.

When I got home I ripped the AP a new *******. She cried all day. I

I have to say her parent has failed her in all sorts of ways.

She told me her mother never taught her how to clean, she did not understand the concept of taking initiative. I told her when you go back home what are you going to do when you have a real job are you just going to sit around the office waiting for your boss to give you instructions every freaking day?

It was a long discussion but I predict I will be firing her.

While the attitude may suck, did the AP know in advance that she was to take DD to the charity event? Sounds like you were supposed to (and you did reluctantly).

The not picking up the clutter of the towels is not cool. The least she should have done is to put them back on the towel rack

Forty-two · Guru

Jb her job is to drive the kids wherever they want to or need to go.

just hanging around · Senior Member

42, what are her duties while the kids are in school?

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

It might be helpful to give her a schedule of the next day's events the evening before.

But I just can't get past that "You don't feel like driving her?" That's just super snotty. Unless it's possibly a language barrier issue? (Yeah, I'm reaching here.)

Since you want to give her a second chance, I would make a list of daily tasks, and then I would sit down the evening before and go over her schedule for the next day. Some people really thrive with clear-cut expectations.

Forty-two · Guru

JHA she has no duties while the kids are in school.

OD yes we normally do give her a schedule but this was an impromtu

Balloon Animal · Guru

I agree with others that you she should at least know ahead of time most cases when she needs to drive the kids where. Even as a mother I don't do well with last minute we got to do this now things. I like to know ahead of time okay today I have to get the kids to school, then DD has Girl scouts at 6 at the school and then we got to go home and do baths, etc. I need to know ahead of time so I am prepared mentally and physically for the days tasks.

I think it should be possible to give her advance notice for next day of what she needs to do as far as driving the kids around.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
I agree with others that you she should at least know ahead of time most cases when she needs to drive the kids where. Even as a mother I don't do well with last minute we got to do this now things. I like to know ahead of time okay today I have to get the kids to school, then DD has Girl scouts at 6 at the school and then we got to go home and do baths, etc. I need to know ahead of time so I am prepared mentally and physically for the days tasks.

I think it should be possible to give her advance notice for next day of what she needs to do as far as driving the kids around.

She may prefer to always know what's coming, but she's an employ. If Forty-two's household was a whirlwind of chaos, then I can see some frustration. But an occassional, "Plans have changed, you'll be taking DD to Event in an hour" is part of the job, and it's not unreasonable for 42 to expect her to comply respectfully. As the employer, 42 is responsible for communicating with AP in a polite, clear, and reasonable manner, but she is not responsible for delivering AP's instructions in the exact manner that AP would prefer.

-- Edited by OpheliaDev1 on Tuesday 29th of April 2014 10:17:38 AM

Balloon Animal · Guru

I agree Ophelia. She was definitely disrespectful. I agree an occasional last minute thing is fine, but in general you should be able to give her schedules ahead of time.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
I agree with others that you she should at least know ahead of time most cases when she needs to drive the kids where. Even as a mother I don't do well with last minute we got to do this now things. I like to know ahead of time okay today I have to get the kids to school, then DD has Girl scouts at 6 at the school and then we got to go home and do baths, etc. I need to know ahead of time so I am prepared mentally and physically for the days tasks.

I think it should be possible to give her advance notice for next day of what she needs to do as far as driving the kids around.

BA I didn't know until I was told which is about 10 minutes before I told her. **** happens you find out things at the last minute. If she cannot handle that then she is not going to make it very long. Sometimes on the spur of the moment I have to stay at work late, an event may come up, suddenly at school, etc, etc, etc. If she can't handle it she is in the wrong freakin job.