Invisapeeps 2.0

Balloon Animal · Guru

RE: Rant No birthday present?

kinalikamom · Senior Member

I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.

Balloon Animal · Guru

kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.

You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............

I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.

I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.

SwissMiss · Veteran Member

I didn't mean hold him captive. doh I asked if he'd be open to it.

BA, unless I'm missing something it sounds like he is there for your kids in many ways, he just doesn't enjoy events. You've mentioned that the kids adore him, he plays with them, spends time with them. But you're making a "he doesn't love us enough" big deal out of what you admit is 15 minutes twice a year. I just don't get it.

The message that seems to give is, if you don't meet my specific expectations, you don't love me enough. I think sometimes in life, we need to adapt our expectations to reality, and not set kids up to be disappointed when you know he won't come. Why drive a wedge in there based on your own interpretation of the father/daughter relationship you have. I'm sure you don't want to push that angst onto the kids. Parents can absolutely be aggravating, and I know mine don't always do things the way I wish they would.... just try to remember that your kids love him and you don't want to put a damper on the relationship they have, that would seem awfully spiteful just because you aren't happy with your end of the relationship.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
We only made him watch Hip Hop's routines which consisted of maybe 15 minutes of paying or convincingly paying attention and complimenting him on how good he did. Maybe he didn't want to he is a grown man why force him to do what he doesn't want to do and why is it such a big freakin deal?

I guess my mind does not work like that. I watch all kinds of kids that are not even mine show me stuff like that and I watch it and tell them how cute it was. That's you, you know it is crazy to expect other people to want to do it just because you do.I mean good God, if paying attention for 15 minutes twice a year is going to be too much for you, maybe you are not cut out to be a grandparent. Or a human being honestly.

I mean what lesson is he teaching them? That I should only have to do exactly what I want to do no matter how much it means to someone else? That is not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I teach them that we support our loved ones even if sometimes it might be boring or annoying for us.

BA you know that is a crazy statement. No one chooses to be a grandparent.

The lesson is when you get to be an adult you get to pick and chose what you want to do. That is the privilege of being an adult.

winds55 · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
winds55 wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
winds55 wrote:
morals? seriously? going or not going to a birthday party is matter of morals?

I'm not sure your father is the toxic one.
morals like that he thought it was okay for me to cancel on a party we rsvped too so we could do something with him. That is not very moral.
That's an etiquette issue. If you think it's a moral issue you need to get a grip on reality.
No to me it is morals. For one it becomes lying. If I say "We will be there" then we are there barring an extreme emergency. That is the people I want to raise my kids to be. Reliable. Trustworthy. Dependable. People that flake out and cancel are usually low character people in my experience.

Now THAT is funny.

winds55 · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.

All you're teaching Robot and HipHop is that HipHop's pleasure is more important than Robot's comfort. It would be one thing if it was "I don't wanna go because I wanna stay home and play video games" but to force a child to a recital that triggers a medical condition/breakdown is cruel.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.

Ballon Animal that is absolutely a terrible thing to do.

Balloon Animal · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.
Ballon Animal that is absolutely a terrible thing to do.

Pretty much anything that involves crowds or loud noises are hard for him. Including school. But he has to learn how to be okay in situations like that. This is according to his special education teachers. So we are supposed to expose him for a bit and then let him leave or go somewhere to de stress. If we never went anywhere that bothered him we would literally never leave the house. No church, no malls, no gyms, no festivals, no parties, no concerts, no stores, no school.

When you have a child with autism, then you can tell us we should never take him anywhere that bothered him. But this whole family cannot be hermits due to one child. But I have been called things for not letting my typical kids do stuff in order to accommodate Robot so pretty much any way you slice it, someone is going to think we are doing it wrong.

I mean so should we just drop off Hip hop at the recital alone? Or his Dad never be able to attend? We certainly have no money or anyone else willing to babysit Robot so we can do the recital. We have multiple kids and all those kids have individual needs that have to be taken care of. We balance it the best we can. When you have our exact kids and exact life, then I might actually think your opinion about what I should do might mean something.

42-and if we want to talk about horrible, I think it is kinda horrible you hire someone to cart your kids around for you because you don't want to, even when you are off work, but that is your life and unless you start making judgments at me I see no reason to make judgements at you. and for the record, I think you a great mom so there is no reason for you to make criticisms of me. But, if you throw some at me, I can throw some right back.
-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:56:52 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:59:16 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:20:17 PM

Cactus · Senior Member

Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.

You're not a doormat because a family member or partner doesn't go to every event- the person who goes to every event they don't want to because they are pushed or manipulated is more of a doormat IMO.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
Actually we did the showing the video of the recital to him at home and he barely paid attention to it.

Yeah, that's not cool. Part of being in a loving relationship is being interested or at least feigning interest in stuff that's important to the other person. My mom does a certain type of horse showing. It may be the most boring horse sport their is. I don't go to her shows. But yes, I sit and watch her routine on the DVD. Because she worked hard on that routine and it is important to her. And when I share something that she may think is boring, she pays attention.

BA, I have to ask, is your dad an alcoholic? B/c mine is and your dad reminds me SO MUCH of mine. My dad would never have pulled the spanking incident, but he probably would have done something similar - agreed to follow my instructions, then disregard them, get frustrated and blow up at the kids, then insist he did nothing wrong.

Cactus · Senior Member

Balloon Animal wrote:
We only made him watch Hip Hop's routines which consisted of maybe 15 minutes of paying or convincingly paying attention and complimenting him on how good he did.

I guess my mind does not work like that. I watch all kinds of kids that are not even mine show me stuff like that and I watch it and tell them how cute it was. I mean good God, if paying attention for 15 minutes twice a year is going to be too much for you, maybe you are not cut out to be a grandparent. Or a human being honestly.

I mean what lesson is he teaching them? That I should only have to do exactly what I want to do no matter how much it means to someone else? That is not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I teach them that we support our loved ones even if sometimes it might be boring or annoying for us.

What lesson do you want to teach them- that you should have to do what other people want you to regardless of your own feelings? That event attendance equals love?

The lesson here should be that grandparents are humans and individuals with their own values, interests, preferences and lives - they don't only exist to be grandparents. The other lesson should be to accept people as they are rather than continually trying to change them to fit your image of what a grandparent (or whatever) should be. Obviously, I am talking within reason here. I don't think you should have to accept your father spanking your kids. But he is doing nothin unreasonable in not attending their events.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Cactus wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
We only made him watch Hip Hop's routines which consisted of maybe 15 minutes of paying or convincingly paying attention and complimenting him on how good he did.

I guess my mind does not work like that. I watch all kinds of kids that are not even mine show me stuff like that and I watch it and tell them how cute it was. I mean good God, if paying attention for 15 minutes twice a year is going to be too much for you, maybe you are not cut out to be a grandparent. Or a human being honestly.

I mean what lesson is he teaching them? That I should only have to do exactly what I want to do no matter how much it means to someone else? That is not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I teach them that we support our loved ones even if sometimes it might be boring or annoying for us.

What lesson do you want to teach them- that you should have to do what other people want you to regardless of your own feelings? That event attendance equals love?
The lesson here should be that grandparents are humans and individuals with their own values, interests, preferences and lives - they don't only exist to be grandparents. The other lesson should be to accept people as they are rather than continually trying to change them to fit your image of what a grandparent (or whatever) should be. Obviously, I am talking within reason here. I don't think you should have to accept your father spanking your kids. But he is doing nothin unreasonable in not attending their events.

I agree with you on the events, Cactus. But really, is it unreasonable to expect BA's Dad to watch a 15 minute video? If that's unreasonable for BA to expect, then is it okay for her to sigh or twiddle her thumbs or check Facebook on her phone while her dad talks about fishing or something that's important to him that BA doesn't care about?

I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect a loved one - not just a Grandparent, but a sibling or a friend or whatever - to watch a 15 minute video once or twice a year and make a positive comment about it.

Is it really okay for us to basically ignore a loved one every time they talk about something that bores us, or show us boring pictures? Is 15 minutes twice a year REALLY too much to ask?

Attendance doesn't equal love. But attention does equal love. Love is a verb.

-- Edited by OpheliaDev1 on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:15:13 PM

Balloon Animal · Guru

Ophelia: I am definitely supposed to pretend to show interest when he wants to talk about something he cares about. So yeah, he does not follow his own "rules". He gets pissy when I don't feign interest in whatever it is he wants to talk about and it has been that way my whole life. I don't mind feigning polite interest within reason for him or anyone else. Apparently he is special though and doesn't have to.

He is not an alcoholic but he is a drinker.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.
Ballon Animal that is absolutely a terrible thing to do.
Pretty much anything that involves crowds or loud noises are hard for him. Including school. But he has to learn how to be okay in situations like that. This is according to his special education teachers. So we are supposed to expose him for a bit and then let him leave or go somewhere to de stress. If we never went anywhere that bothered him we would literally never leave the house. No church, no malls, no gyms, no festivals, no parties, no concerts, no stores, no school.
When you have a child with autism, then you can tell us we should never take him anywhere that bothered him. But this whole family cannot be hermits due to one child. But I have been called things for not letting my typical kids do stuff in order to accommodate Robot so pretty much any way you slice it, someone is going to think we are doing it wrong.
I mean so should we just drop off Hip hop at the recital alone? Or his Dad never be able to attend? We certainly have no money or anyone else willing to babysit Robot so we can do the recital. We have multiple kids and all those kids have individual needs that have to be taken care of. We balance it the best we can. When you have our exact kids and exact life, then I might actually think your opinion about what I should do might mean something.

42-and if we want to talk about horrible, I think it is kinda horrible you hire someone to cart your kids around for you because you don't want to, even when you are off work, but that is your life and unless you start making judgments at me I see no reason to make judgements at you. and for the record, I think you a great mom so there is no reason for you to make criticisms of me. But, if you throw some at me, I can throw some right back.
-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:56:52 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:59:16 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:20:17 PM

I would alternate parents attending and watching robot. I would not make my kid suffer for a recital, different strokes for different folks.

You think it is horrible to have someone drive your kids to practices and over their friends' houses, uh ok because that doesn't make a darned bit of sense. I have a driver take them into NYC rather than me do it too. I have all kinds of ****ty driving stories. Thinking it is bad to have some drive your kids is like thinking it is bad to eat in a restaurant rather than cook yourself.

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.

I'm not sure how to interpret this exactly. I see how you could interpret it as doormattery. I'm going to interpret it differently here - you can't MAKE him give you more. Your complaints and expectations only hurt YOU. I think you need a) accept this. This is how he is. You can't do anything to change it. Then b) decide how you will behave moving forward.

BA, it seems to me you feel powerless. And you are powerless to change HIM. but you are NOT powerless to change YOU.

And I'm going to disagree with the whole "if the kids think he hung the moon, he must be doing something right." Kids learn about family relationships from their family. Right now? They're learning that it's okay for Grandpa to disregard them and their interests and activities, and then lap up what he chooses to give them.

When I was little I too thought my grandparents were awesome, because they were the only grandparents I had, so I was grateful for the scraps of attention they threw my way when the Golden Grandkids weren't there. I learned that it was okay for Grandma to give Golden Grandson 2 cookies and me none. It was okay, because she was Grandma. Maybe if I could smile bigger and be cuter and nicer and more devoted, she'd love me as much as Golden Grandson.

flan327 · Senior Member

ana wrote:
I love my nieces and nephews but I only went to a couple of shows/recitals. I wanted to poke my eye out with a fork. Never again!

I would not be pleased if I missed the show (on purpose) and then was held captive to a "showing".

I had friends that did that to us once at a dinner out. 700 pictures! I did not care. And I hated that the entire dinner was around their trip. Every time the conversation moved on, they brought it right back to their trip. We all traveled but no-one else bored the entire group with hundreds of pictures! I passed them without even looking at after the first 50. We get the idea.

Kids shows/recitals are awful. I know a lot of parents that hate them too!

It's just something you do because you love your kid.

flan

OpheliaDev1 · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
kinalikamom wrote:
I believe the lesson is to accept what a loved one gives you without complaint and without expectation of more just because you want it.
You don't think that will make them a door mat? I could see Merida dating in a few years and thinking well yeah my boyfriend totally skipped my speech presentation at the big tri county championships and it was really important to me for him to be there, but I guess if he would rather go play video games with his boys that is okay...............
I don't think you should always just accept less from loved ones if they are capable and able of giving more. It is a balancing act for sure and you are not always going to get what you want, but you should not just take whatever scraps someone throws you either and be happy about it.
I make Robot go to Hip Hop's recitals even though for Robot it is a sensory nightmare. We bring Robot a blanket and headphones to help him with the sensory part and he make him last as long as he can. At least a while. Then DH takes him home. So we compromise. We make him come and show support and then when he has had enough we take him home. That to me is how we act toward loved ones. Both people give of themselves. Hip Hop understands why Robot cannot stay the whole time but he is glad he at least tried and showed up.
Ballon Animal that is absolutely a terrible thing to do.
Pretty much anything that involves crowds or loud noises are hard for him. Including school. But he has to learn how to be okay in situations like that. This is according to his special education teachers. So we are supposed to expose him for a bit and then let him leave or go somewhere to de stress. If we never went anywhere that bothered him we would literally never leave the house. No church, no malls, no gyms, no festivals, no parties, no concerts, no stores, no school.
When you have a child with autism, then you can tell us we should never take him anywhere that bothered him. But this whole family cannot be hermits due to one child. But I have been called things for not letting my typical kids do stuff in order to accommodate Robot so pretty much any way you slice it, someone is going to think we are doing it wrong.
I mean so should we just drop off Hip hop at the recital alone? Or his Dad never be able to attend? We certainly have no money or anyone else willing to babysit Robot so we can do the recital. We have multiple kids and all those kids have individual needs that have to be taken care of. We balance it the best we can. When you have our exact kids and exact life, then I might actually think your opinion about what I should do might mean something.

42-and if we want to talk about horrible, I think it is kinda horrible you hire someone to cart your kids around for you because you don't want to, even when you are off work, but that is your life and unless you start making judgments at me I see no reason to make judgements at you. and for the record, I think you a great mom so there is no reason for you to make criticisms of me. But, if you throw some at me, I can throw some right back.
-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:56:52 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 03:59:16 PM

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:20:17 PM
I would alternate parents attending and watching robot. I would not make my kid suffer for a recital, different strokes for different folks.

You think it is horrible to have someone drive your kids to practices and over their friends' houses, uh ok because that doesn't make a darned bit of sense. I have a driver take them into NYC rather than me do it too. I have all kinds of ****ty driving stories. Thinking it is bad to have some drive your kids is like thinking it is bad to eat in a restaurant rather than cook yourself.

I think BA makes a really good point. She is making parenting choices based on what she thinks is best for her children and what resources are available to her. And a lot of people would think that eating out for dinner every night is bad, rather than serving your children healthy home cooked meals.

Plus in BA's case, her taking Robot to recitals is based on a doctor's advice.

Balloon Animal · Guru

actually I think it is fine 42, to have an au pair. I personally drive my own kids to their friends houses and their parties and extra curricular activities. If you are willing to pay for someone to do that, more power to you. Some people would claim you are not spending enough time with your kids though because between working, having the au pair care for them and your frequent trips, when exactly do you see them? But that is not what I am saying. I am just pointing out someone could say that about you. I think you do what works for your family and that sounds good to me

Again you did not address the fact that his special education teachers said he has to get used to being out in public. They praise me that he is so high functioning since I have always been good about getting him out in the world in different social situations. Do you think keeping him at home 24/7 is good for him? Good for our family? Because he would literally never go anywhere if we avoided all places that could upset him sensory wise.

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:59:10 PM

flan327 · Senior Member

Balloon Animal wrote:
I can understand what Flan is saying as far as I cannot imagine not being there to attend my future grandchild's dance recital or elementary graduation or girl scout initiation. I already told DH that if our kids move far away for work or whatever, I want to move and go live near them so I can actually have a good relationship with my grandchildren because seeing them twice a year is not going to cut it for me. I would want to be there for their lives and their important events.
Both of my parents moved away when they knew I was going to have kids and now they bitch when they have to drive to come see us or when they miss something. Well duh I say to that. You are the ones who moved away when you knew I was going to have kids.

And I thought I'd address my family dynamics: I really only knew my maternal grandmother & can't say that it was a warm & fuzzy relationship. She was a neurotic Catholic woman. She was able to show affection, though, and I have many good memories.

My mom & dad moved 500 miles away when Dad's plant closed. I had graduated college & was on my own by then.

When DS1 was born (the first grandchild), it took Mom 3 months to make the trip to meet him.

I tried to foster a relationship. I made the drive twice a year by myself, after DS2 was born. I hope my boys have some good memories.

And then my DGD was born. I was at the hospital during the labor, I was the first of the grandparents to hold her. She lives 20 minutes away from me. I only see her once a week, but that 30 minutes makes my heart sing. She just turned 2 and knows that I am "Grammy"...or sometimes "Gammy." She likes books & puzzles & songs.

flan

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
actually I think it is fine 42, to have an au pair. I personally drive my own kids to their friends houses and their parties and extra curricular activities. If you are willing to pay for someone to do that, more power to you. Some people would claim you are not spending enough time with your kids though because between working, having the au pair care for them and your frequent trips, when exactly do you see them? Then they would be idiots because I have an au pair for the time my kid is not in school and when I am not home so that would be on average three hours a day. So in order to spend more time with my kids I would have to not work and I refuse to be dependent on my husband. But that is not what I am saying. I am just pointing out someone could say that about you. To say that they would be pretty stupid so I would not care I think you do what works for your family and that sounds good to me

Again you did not address the fact that his special education teachers said he has to get used to being out in publicThere are tons of things you can do to get a kid out in public and not take him to a recital. My kid has never been to one.. They praise me that he is so high functioning since I have always been good about getting him out in the world in different social situations. Do you think keeping him at home 24/7 is good for him? It is kind of extreme for you to jump to he should be home 24/7 vs he should not have to sit through a recital. Good for our family? Because he would literally never go anywhere if we avoided all places that could upset him sensory wise.

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 04:59:10 PM

winds55 · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
actually I think it is fine 42, to have an au pair. I personally drive my own kids to their friends houses and their parties and extra curricular activities. If you are willing to pay for someone to do that, more power to you. Some people would claim you are not spending enough time with your kids though because between working, having the au pair care for them and your frequent trips, when exactly do you see them? But that is not what I am saying. I am just pointing out someone could say that about you.
No, you didn't point out that someone could say that. YOU condemned her. Own your words for once.
Again you did not address the fact that his special education teachers said he has to get used to being out in public. They praise me that he is so high functioning since I have always been good about getting him out in the world in different social situations. Do you think keeping him at home 24/7 is good for him? Good for our family? Because he would literally never go anywhere if we avoided all places that could upset him sensory wise.
Not every occasion has to be a learning experience for your sons. By forcing one son to be so uncomfortable at his brother's recital, you're teaching him that his brother is more important. In addition, the son at the recital doesn't get the total attention of either of you, because you're worried about his brother and 'can we get him out of here before a full blow-out'. There's no reason why you can't alternate who goes to recitals, unless you're hoping for more accolades about what a great mom you are because you always show up for these things, no matter what.

ana · Senior Member

flan327 wrote:
ana wrote:
I love my nieces and nephews but I only went to a couple of shows/recitals. I wanted to poke my eye out with a fork. Never again!

I would not be pleased if I missed the show (on purpose) and then was held captive to a "showing".

I had friends that did that to us once at a dinner out. 700 pictures! I did not care. And I hated that the entire dinner was around their trip. Every time the conversation moved on, they brought it right back to their trip. We all traveled but no-one else bored the entire group with hundreds of pictures! I passed them without even looking at after the first 50. We get the idea.

Kids shows/recitals are awful. I know a lot of parents that hate them too!
It's just something you do because you love your kid.
flan

I agree because you made the choice to have the child and put them in that activity. Expecting other family members to do it even though they didn't have a choice does not mean they don't love the child.

Lots of parents take turns as well.

ana · Senior Member

flan327 wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
I can understand what Flan is saying as far as I cannot imagine not being there to attend my future grandchild's dance recital or elementary graduation or girl scout initiation. I already told DH that if our kids move far away for work or whatever, I want to move and go live near them so I can actually have a good relationship with my grandchildren because seeing them twice a year is not going to cut it for me. I would want to be there for their lives and their important events.
Both of my parents moved away when they knew I was going to have kids and now they bitch when they have to drive to come see us or when they miss something. Well duh I say to that. You are the ones who moved away when you knew I was going to have kids.
And I thought I'd address my family dynamics: I really only knew my maternal grandmother & can't say that it was a warm & fuzzy relationship. She was a neurotic Catholic woman. She was able to show affection, though, and I have many good memories.
My mom & dad moved 500 miles away when Dad's plant closed. I had graduated college & was on my own by then.
When DS1 was born (the first grandchild), it took Mom 3 months to make the trip to meet him.
I tried to foster a relationship. I made the drive twice a year by myself, after DS2 was born. I hope my boys have some good memories.
And then my DGD was born. I was at the hospital during the labor, I was the first of the grandparents to hold her. She lives 20 minutes away from me. I only see her once a week, but that 30 minutes makes my heart sing. She just turned 2 and knows that I am "Grammy"...or sometimes "Gammy." She likes books & puzzles & songs.
flan

You sound bitter about the time it took your mom to meet your son. However, I don't see any recriminations for your father.

Did you stop to consider that they have their own lives and came to visit as soon as it worked for them?

3 months is really not that long to ask to take vacation time and drive 500 miles.

Forty-two · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
I can understand what Flan is saying as far as I cannot imagine not being there to attend my future grandchild's dance recital or elementary graduation or girl scout initiation. I already told DH that if our kids move far away for work or whatever, I want to move and go live near them so I can actually have a good relationship with my grandchildren because seeing them twice a year is not going to cut it for me. I would want to be there for their lives and their important events.
Both of my parents moved away when they knew I was going to have kids and now they bitch when they have to drive to come see us or when they miss something. Well duh I say to that. You are the ones who moved away when you knew I was going to have kids.
And I thought I'd address my family dynamics: I really only knew my maternal grandmother & can't say that it was a warm & fuzzy relationship. She was a neurotic Catholic woman. She was able to show affection, though, and I have many good memories.
My mom & dad moved 500 miles away when Dad's plant closed. I had graduated college & was on my own by then.
When DS1 was born (the first grandchild), it took Mom 3 months to make the trip to meet him.
I tried to foster a relationship. I made the drive twice a year by myself, after DS2 was born. I hope my boys have some good memories.
And then my DGD was born. I was at the hospital during the labor, I was the first of the grandparents to hold her. She lives 20 minutes away from me. I only see her once a week, but that 30 minutes makes my heart sing. She just turned 2 and knows that I am "Grammy"...or sometimes "Gammy." She likes books & puzzles & songs.
flan

Was she well off where that coming 500 miles would not be an issue? I don't know that everyone could afford a plane ticket or train ticket and I would be damned if I would drive 500 miles to see a baby.

winds55 · Guru

I guess should have been upset that my mother didn't leave her weekend retreat and head right to the hospital when my first son was born. Or perhaps my sons should be permanently traumatized that their grandparents didn't go to all their Little League games. Or that they didn't go to their elementary school programs. Although that would be on me, I suppose, since I didn't even think about telling them about such things.

ana · Senior Member

Balloon Animal wrote:
We only made him watch Hip Hop's routines which consisted of maybe 15 minutes of paying or convincingly paying attention and complimenting him on how good he did.

I guess my mind does not work like that. I watch all kinds of kids that are not even mine show me stuff like that and I watch it and tell them how cute it was. I mean good God, if paying attention for 15 minutes twice a year is going to be too much for you, maybe you are not cut out to be a grandparent. Or a human being honestly.

I mean what lesson is he teaching them? That I should only have to do exactly what I want to do no matter how much it means to someone else? That is not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I teach them that we support our loved ones even if sometimes it might be boring or annoying for us.

This is where you lose me.

Why make an adult do anything? If he was interested, wouldn't he have asked to see the video?

Having a conversation should be two-way street. Not a monologue from one person at another. Do you not have any topics that both of you are interested in?

I don't have conversations with anyone that the other party finds boring! Well, not counting work stuff at work. biggrin

Balloon Animal · Guru

ana wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
We only made him watch Hip Hop's routines which consisted of maybe 15 minutes of paying or convincingly paying attention and complimenting him on how good he did.

I guess my mind does not work like that. I watch all kinds of kids that are not even mine show me stuff like that and I watch it and tell them how cute it was. I mean good God, if paying attention for 15 minutes twice a year is going to be too much for you, maybe you are not cut out to be a grandparent. Or a human being honestly.

I mean what lesson is he teaching them? That I should only have to do exactly what I want to do no matter how much it means to someone else? That is not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I teach them that we support our loved ones even if sometimes it might be boring or annoying for us.

This is where you lose me.
Why make an adult do anything? If he was interested, wouldn't he have asked to see the video?
Having a conversation should be two-way street. Not a monologue from one person at another. Do you not have any topics that both of you are interested in?
I don't have conversations with anyone that the other party finds boring! Well, not counting work stuff at work.

Not really. Nothing that he and I can talk about that the kids relate to. I can talk to him about adult tv shows or movies. He has nothing that is g rated enough really that he can talk to the kids about. He keeps trying to drag them to adult movies like Captain America or Godzilla which really are not appropriate for 7 to 11 year olds. Maybe the 11 year old can handle it, but she also does not care that much about monster movies or super hero movies. She would rather watch Teen Beach Movie.

Balloon Animal · Guru

With my parents and even MIL, they all stated multiple times they wanted us to have kids and be grandparents. Made that clear. So once you make something like that known and take on that role voluntarily, then you need to do a good job at it. End of story. That may mean different things to different people. Which is fine. But, in no case did we force being a grandparent on any of our parents. They all were talking about being grandparents before we even conceived any kids. This is not a case of we had kids when our parents did not want to be a grandparent (which sometimes can happen). They wanted it. So now, my tolerance of their complaining about doing things that kinda go along with being a grandparent like remembering to call them on their birthday or send a birthday card is pretty low. You can't just show up for the good parts without doing some of the other parts like pretending to be interested for the 5 minutes it takes for your grandson to show you his dance routine. I am not asking him to chaperone a week long school field trip.I am asking him to take 5 minutes to call and wish them a happy birthday on their birthdays.

ana · Senior Member

BA, you can't make people do what you want. You need to either let go of your expectations or the relationship because forcing your will on another adult ultimately does not work.

Saying they wanted you to have kids does not mean you get to dictate how they grandparent. Just like they can't tell YOU how to parent.

If they are complaining, you need to look at your behaviour and see if you are too demanding.

flan327 · Senior Member

ana wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Balloon Animal wrote:
I can understand what Flan is saying as far as I cannot imagine not being there to attend my future grandchild's dance recital or elementary graduation or girl scout initiation. I already told DH that if our kids move far away for work or whatever, I want to move and go live near them so I can actually have a good relationship with my grandchildren because seeing them twice a year is not going to cut it for me. I would want to be there for their lives and their important events.
Both of my parents moved away when they knew I was going to have kids and now they bitch when they have to drive to come see us or when they miss something. Well duh I say to that. You are the ones who moved away when you knew I was going to have kids.
And I thought I'd address my family dynamics: I really only knew my maternal grandmother & can't say that it was a warm & fuzzy relationship. She was a neurotic Catholic woman. She was able to show affection, though, and I have many good memories.
My mom & dad moved 500 miles away when Dad's plant closed. I had graduated college & was on my own by then.
When DS1 was born (the first grandchild), it took Mom 3 months to make the trip to meet him.
I tried to foster a relationship. I made the drive twice a year by myself, after DS2 was born. I hope my boys have some good memories.
And then my DGD was born. I was at the hospital during the labor, I was the first of the grandparents to hold her. She lives 20 minutes away from me. I only see her once a week, but that 30 minutes makes my heart sing. She just turned 2 and knows that I am "Grammy"...or sometimes "Gammy." She likes books & puzzles & songs.
flan

You sound bitter about the time it took your mom to meet your son. However, I don't see any recriminations for your father.
Did you stop to consider that they have their own lives and came to visit as soon as it worked for them?
3 months is really not that long to ask to take vacation time and drive 500 miles.

My father did whatever Mom wanted.

"They had their own lives?" Both were retired & in good health.

I'm glad you know me so well, though.

flan

winds55 · Guru

Damn, I had no idea that being retired meant you and your wallet were at the beck and call of your kids. Recitals, presents, calls, 'watch this' demands from parents, don't you dare do what you want. My parents really screwed that one up - how strange that grandkids took time off work, drove hours, and flew from across the country for Mom's birthday.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
With my parents and even MIL, they all stated multiple times they wanted us to have kids and be grandparents. Made that clear. So once you make something like that known and take on that role voluntarily, then you need to do a good job at it. End of story. That may mean different things to different people. Which is fine. But, in no case did we force being a grandparent on any of our parents. They all were talking about being grandparents before we even conceived any kids. This is not a case of we had kids when our parents did not want to be a grandparent (which sometimes can happen). They wanted it. So now, my tolerance of their complaining about doing things that kinda go along with being a grandparent like remembering to call them on their birthday or send a birthday card is pretty low. You can't just show up for the good parts without doing some of the other parts like pretending to be interested for the 5 minutes it takes for your grandson to show you his dance routine. I am not asking him to chaperone a week long school field trip.I am asking him to take 5 minutes to call and wish them a happy birthday on their birthdays.

BA I really think you should give up. So what they said they wanted to be grandparents. You are making way to big of deal about this minor issue you need to move on.

ana · Senior Member

Flan, nowhere did I say I know you. I said you sounded bitter. Blaming your mother and abdicating all responsibility from your father shows an unhealthy dynamic. It's telling.

Being retired and in good health means that you no longer have a life? Since when? Having a child is not the holy grail. It is not THAT special, except to the parents (and sometimes not even then!). People have been having children for hundreds of years. Only recently it is being touted as some big accomplishment. It's not. It's a biological function that animals manage to do successfully.

Loving a child is a choice. One that cannot be forced onto anyone. And loving a child does not mean being at the beck and call of that child and/or the parents!

Just because you think grandchildren are the best thing ever, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

-- Edited by ana on Sunday 18th of May 2014 08:27:14 AM

flan327 · Senior Member

ana wrote:
Flan, nowhere did I say I know you. I said you sounded bitter. Blaming your mother and abdicating all responsibility from your father shows an unhealthy dynamic. It's telling.

Being retired and in good health means that you no longer have a life? Since when? Having a child is not the holy grail. It is not THAT special, except to the parents (and sometimes not even then!). People have been having children for hundreds of years. Only recently it is being touted as some big accomplishment. It's not. It's a biological function that animals manage to do successfully.

Loving a child is a choice. One that cannot be forced onto anyone. And loving a child does not mean being at the beck and call of that child and/or the parents!

Just because you think grandchildren are the best thing ever, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

-- Edited by ana on Sunday 18th of May 2014 08:27:14 AM

Actually, most of my friends and co-workers feel the same way. It IS a miracle.

I'm not going into great detail about my family dynamic. It seems you already know it.

Let's see, my parents knew I was pregnant, so there was plenty of time to plan. Why could they come at 3 months? Did they not "have a life?"

flan

Forty-two · Guru

Flan you really give a **** about when you parents came to see your new baby? Like I asked before they live 500 miles away do they have ample money for a plane or train ticket? Because if I were with out significant means I would be g-ddamned if I would drive 500 just to see a baby.

flan327 · Senior Member

Forty-two wrote:
Flan you really give a **** about when you parents came to see your new baby? Like I asked before they live 500 miles away do they have ample money for a plane or train ticket? Because if I were with out significant means I would be g-ddamned if I would drive 500 just to see a baby.

Mom? Is that you??

It's just one part of a larger issue. It's not "just" a baby. It's the first grandchild.

flan

p.s. Sorry, yes they had the money.

Forty-two · Guru

Ok Flan then yeah I am your mom because yeah you had just a kid. I know my kids would not expect me to hop on a plane the next day or asap just to see a baby. I really don't think it being the first grandchild matters.

It seems that you and BA want your parents to think and feel like you do and that really is not fair or even rational.

-- Edited by Forty-two on Sunday 18th of May 2014 09:04:39 AM

ana · Senior Member

Now you are a grandmother and still you are bitter! That's one long-lasting grudge. Not healthy. At all.

It appears you have surrounded yourself with people that think giving birth is a "miracle"? Something that happens every second of every day to every living species in the world?

So, only the first grandchild is important? What about the second or the seventh? No such billing huh?

Btw, most is not ALL (everyone).

Forty-two · Guru

I am going to say this as a mother of three. What the hell is with women thinking having a baby and raising a kid is some miraculously novel and hard thing (special needs kids aside). I look at Ben Cartwright a world known neurosurgeon who has separated conjoined twins (and used to be someone I looked up to until his crazy republican leanings came out) his mother couldn't even freakin read! There are many girls out there who raise kids, having been knocked up at 13, 14, 15, they do it so we women need to stop acting like having kids and raising them is somehow equal to doing brain surgery.

flan327 · Senior Member

ana wrote:
Now you are a grandmother and still you are bitter! That's one long-lasting grudge. Not healthy. At all.

It appears you have surrounded yourself with people that think giving birth is a "miracle"? Something that happens every second of every day to every living species in the world?

So, only the first grandchild is important? What about the second or the seventh? No such billing huh?

Btw, most is not ALL (everyone).

How much do I owe you for the counseling?

The last time I checked, humans were the only species with self-awareness. And, as someone who struggled with fertility issues AND had a miscarriage, YES, birth is a miracle.

flan

ana · Senior Member

Gah, it's like those stupid articles that go around comparing mothers to doctors, chefs, chauffeurs, event planners, dietitians, etc. Without the training and schooling of course.

Putting on a band-aid is EXACTLY the same as brain surgery.

Where have you been 42?

ana · Senior Member

flan327 wrote:
ana wrote:
Now you are a grandmother and still you are bitter! That's one long-lasting grudge. Not healthy. At all.

It appears you have surrounded yourself with people that think giving birth is a "miracle"? Something that happens every second of every day to every living species in the world?

So, only the first grandchild is important? What about the second or the seventh? No such billing huh?

Btw, most is not ALL (everyone).
How much do I owe you for the counseling?
The last time I checked, humans were the only species with self-awareness. And, as someone who struggled with fertility issues AND had a miscarriage, YES, birth is a miracle.
flan

I suspect you don't have as much self-awareness as you think you have.

Balloon Animal · Guru

winds55 wrote:
Damn, I had no idea that being retired meant you and your wallet were at the beck and call of your kids. Recitals, presents, calls, 'watch this' demands from parents, don't you dare do what you want. My parents really screwed that one up - how strange that grandkids took time off work, drove hours, and flew from across the country for Mom's birthday.

Well relationships are give and take right? So if he is willing to put himself out there for us, we will do the same for him. If he doesn't, we won't. No way am I always going out of my way for someone who won't do the same for us.

ana · Senior Member

What exactly do you do for your father BA? Give him money? Pay for his golf?

Oh, I know. You call him on his birthday and buy him a card! So you do that for him once a year and he is expected to do that (at a minimum) 5 times a year?

Balloon Animal · Guru

Forty-two wrote:
I am going to say this as a mother of three. What the hell is with women thinking having a baby and raising a kid is some miraculously novel and hard thing (special needs kids aside). I look at Ben Cartwright a world known neurosurgeon who has separated conjoined twins (and used to be someone I looked up to until his crazy republican leanings came out) his mother couldn't even freakin read! There are many girls out there who raise kids, having been knocked up at 13, 14, 15, they do it so we women need to stop acting like having kids and raising them is somehow equal to doing brain surgery.

Well this does not apply to me since I have two kids with special needs and am raising one kid that is adopted. I think that puts me in a pretty freaking awesome category personally.

Pooping out a kid is not a huge accomplishment but being an outstanding mother is. I am impressed with any woman that does an extraordinary job with it. Like my mom friend that even when she worked a full time job plus overtime that often required her to be on work trips still had the energy every weekend to make sure to haul her kids to all kinds of fun activities and parties and events. I know some stay at home moms that did not do as much as she did with her kids. She is a hero and she does deserve to be praised.

Forty-two · Guru

Balloon Animal wrote:
Forty-two wrote:
I am going to say this as a mother of three. What the hell is with women thinking having a baby and raising a kid is some miraculously novel and hard thing (special needs kids aside). I look at Ben Cartwright a world known neurosurgeon who has separated conjoined twins (and used to be someone I looked up to until his crazy republican leanings came out) his mother couldn't even freakin read! There are many girls out there who raise kids, having been knocked up at 13, 14, 15, they do it so we women need to stop acting like having kids and raising them is somehow equal to doing brain surgery.
Well this does not apply to me since I have two kids with special needs and am raising one kid that is adopted. I think that puts me in a pretty freaking awesome category personally.
Pooping out a kid is not a huge accomplishment but being an outstanding mother is. I am impressed with any woman that does an extraordinary job with it. Like my mom friend that even when she worked a full time job plus overtime that often required her to be on work trips still had the energy every weekend to make sure to haul her kids to all kinds of fun activities and parties and events. I know some stay at home moms that did not do as much as she did with her kids. She is a hero and she does deserve to be praised.

Meh, I guess I look at what she is doing as I do my neighbor he works long hours and inspite of all of those hours he still has time to cut his acre lot instead of hiring someone to do it. He should be praised blankstare

ana · Senior Member

No one is doubting that you take being a mother very seriously BA. You are probably a very good mother but we are talking about visiting a new mom that has just given birth. It is not as much a priority to people that are not the parents.

Balloon Animal · Guru

ana wrote:
What exactly do you do for your father BA? Give him money? Pay for his golf?

Oh, I know. You call him on his birthday and buy him a card! So you do that for him once a year and he is expected to do that (at a minimum) 5 times a year?

well if you look in the craft thread I had all the kids make him handmade personalized garden stones for Father's Day just recently. We gave them to him early so he could go ahead and put them in the garden now while it is blooming. I never ever forget his birthday, Christmas or Father's Day. Not happened even once. I make sure the kids write him thank you notes for anything he does. Anytime he asks to come visit I do the best I can to make sure we can make that happen. He expects me to just drop everything and I can't do that, but I do my best. I travel 2 and a half hours with 3 kids to visit him several times a year often alone (which is not easy traveling with a child with autism, a child with food allergies that means I have to pack a ton of food for him to eat since my father cannot be bothered to get safe food for him, and another kid.).

If he asks us to come to something important to him like his retirement or Christmas party we try to come. If he wants to talk about something we don't really care to talk about we at least show polite interest and try to be polite about it, while he will just cut us off when it comes to stuff like that.

winds55 · Guru

You've made it quite obvious that you're all about what others will give to you, BA. They not only have to give, they have to give WHAT you say, WHEN you say, and HOW you say. And if a grandparent they don't even know does something for their grandkid, they're expected to do that too. It probably is all your father's fault, though, since apparently your parents raised you to be a materialistic, vindictive, self-important, vengeful, entitled princess.