Invisapeeps 2.0

Yeah we have her for the summer and then we get a new one but we need to start looking now as it can take 12 weeks to get their papers in order. We are not going to go for a German or Dutch au pair this time.

HF on whether she can cook or not. Personality and integrity "appearance" as in how they keep themselves because it is a reflection of how they keep your house, their room, etc.

This time I will ask questions looking for certain things.

1) tell me seven dishes you can cook. (then I will specifically ask them about certain ingredients in some of the dishes.
2) If you were hired to work 45 hours a week and you actually only work 30 what would you do with the rest of your time (they better say something like clean out the pantry, organize the spice drawer, organize the clothing drawer, water the plant, stuff like that) this will get at integrity for me.
3) Not German or Dutch because they are too rigid. Of course that is a sweeping generalization but I have met enough that I sticking with it when hiring.

Rigid is never good if you are working with or for me.

Forty-two wrote:

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This time I will ask questions looking for certain things.

1) tell me seven dishes you can cook. (then I will specifically ask them about certain ingredients in some of the dishes.
2) If you were hired to work 45 hours a week and you actually only work 30 what would you do with the rest of your time (they better say something like clean out the pantry, organize the spice drawer, organize the clothing drawer, water the plant, stuff like that) this will get at integrity for me.
3) Not German or Dutch because they are too rigid. Of course that is a sweeping generalization but I have met enough that I sticking with it when hiring.

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 Sorry but #2 sounds more like a house cleaner. I would make sure you make it clear on the applications and interview process you expect them to do stuff like that. I think we all told you before that light cleaning is expected obviously, but organizing your pantry or spice drawer? Not really part of what a typical nanny does. 

Like really just make sure they know they are supposed to do that. I would never think I should organize anyone's closets with a job like that. Because a lot of people like me for example would be pissed if someone went through their drawers and closets and reorganized things. I like things where I put them. 

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 11:32:34 PM

Balloon Animal wrote:

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Forty-two wrote:

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This time I will ask questions looking for certain things.

1) tell me seven dishes you can cook. (then I will specifically ask them about certain ingredients in some of the dishes.
2) If you were hired to work 45 hours a week and you actually only work 30 what would you do with the rest of your time (they better say something like clean out the pantry, organize the spice drawer, organize the clothing drawer, water the plant, stuff like that) this will get at integrity for me.
3) Not German or Dutch because they are too rigid. Of course that is a sweeping generalization but I have met enough that I sticking with it when hiring.

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 Sorry but #2 sounds more like a house cleaner. I would make sure you make it clear on the applications and interview process you expect them to do stuff like that. I think we all told you before that light cleaning is expected obviously, but organizing your pantry or spice drawer? Not really part of what a typical nanny does. I have no idea what you mean by "I think we all told you" who is we and when did you all tell me this.

Like really just make sure they know they are supposed to do that. I would never think I should organize anyone's closets with a job like that. Because a lot of people like me for example would be pissed if someone went through their drawers and closets and reorganized things. I like things where I put them. 

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 11:32:34 PM

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 If I hired anyone for any job and they were paid for 45 hours of work and only gave me 35 hours and did not show any initiative to find something else to do around the house that person has no personal initiative.  

I was thinking about applying...until the seven dishes requirement, 42! LOL

flan

Forty-two wrote:

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Come on Flan you can't cook seven dishes? really? I think everyone can cook spaghetti and meat sauce. That's one.

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 Oh, I am notorious for my lack of cooking skills!

flan

I'm too old to be a nanny and no offense I don't think you could pay me enough but I would make a hell of a nanny! I should have done that when I was young but damned if I wanted to spend my life doing domestic chores and looking after children!

I do love children, but not housework. I do love an organized household. You should see my pantry and spices. It is a thing of beauty!

Pfttt. Seven dishes? I knew that many before I was 12.

Flan when I tell someone to cook x,y, and Z and they say they don't know how they should look it up on the internet. When they don't I think they are a dumb ass.

When I ask can you cook what is the difference between reading a recipe and cooking a meal and cooking a meal from scratch? Both are cooking a meal


If a person says they can't cook and does not think to look up a recipe I will think they lack initiative and quite frankly are pretty stupid.

Forty-two wrote:

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Flan when I tell someone to cook x,y, and Z and they say they don't know how they should look it up on the internet. When they don't I think they are a dumb ass.

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 I guess it depends on how complex the meal is supposed to be.

flan

Forty-two wrote:

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Balloon Animal wrote:

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Forty-two wrote:

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This time I will ask questions looking for certain things.

1) tell me seven dishes you can cook. (then I will specifically ask them about certain ingredients in some of the dishes.
2) If you were hired to work 45 hours a week and you actually only work 30 what would you do with the rest of your time (they better say something like clean out the pantry, organize the spice drawer, organize the clothing drawer, water the plant, stuff like that) this will get at integrity for me.
3) Not German or Dutch because they are too rigid. Of course that is a sweeping generalization but I have met enough that I sticking with it when hiring.

---

 Sorry but #2 sounds more like a house cleaner. I would make sure you make it clear on the applications and interview process you expect them to do stuff like that. I think we all told you before that light cleaning is expected obviously, but organizing your pantry or spice drawer? Not really part of what a typical nanny does. I have no idea what you mean by "I think we all told you" who is we and when did you all tell me this.

Like really just make sure they know they are supposed to do that. I would never think I should organize anyone's closets with a job like that. Because a lot of people like me for example would be pissed if someone went through their drawers and closets and reorganized things. I like things where I put them. 

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Saturday 17th of May 2014 11:32:34 PM

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 If I hired anyone for any job and they were paid for 45 hours of work and only gave me 35 hours and did not show any initiative to find something else to do around the house that person has no personal initiative.  

 go back and check that thread about your au pair. Several people said nanny does not = house cleaner. They do basic tasks like dishes after they feed the kids or picking up the kids toys or even washing the kids sheets stuff like that, but they are not responsible typically for organizing your shoe rack. Unless you otherwise state so when you hire them and would probably need to pay them appropriately. I would never hire a nanny/au pair and expect that out of them. 

when I was in high school I spent a lot of time babysitting and even spent summers being kinda like full time work day child care so pretty much a nanny. I watched the kids in their home while they were at work during the day. I did stuff like put the dirty dishes in the dishwasher and picked up after me and the kids (put clothes in the hamper, sweep up our crumbs, pick up toys) but I did not do house work. I was not washing their windows and organizing their closets. I spent my time playing and interacting with the kids which is what I was hired for. 

-- Edited by Balloon Animal on Sunday 18th of May 2014 09:40:09 AM

I don't think asking an employee to have initiative is a bad thing, although if I were your au pair, I wouldn't think to re-organize the pantry or other cabinets. It feels presumptious to rearrange someone else's space, but I certainly would find something to dust or such.

ana wrote:

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I babysat in the summers too BA. When the kids took their afternoon nap, I would clean up the kitchen and anywhere we were playing. I would sometimes put a load of laundry on and start dinner. No wonder the families in the neighbourhood fought to get me.

A nanny is not expected to hand-mop the floors usually but light housekeeping, cooking and laundry are typically part of the job. Plus as a member of the family, doing basic things like picking up things off the floor are expected from normal human beings!

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 I agree with the stuff you listed. But she gave examples of organizing closets and cabinets and to me that is above and beyond and typically not what I think most people think qualify as nanny duties. 

Which is fine. But you need to tell her that up front you expect that and you will probably need to pay her more. 

Aardvark wrote:

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I don't think asking an employee to have initiative is a bad thing, although if I were your au pair, I wouldn't think to re-organize the pantry or other cabinets. It feels presumptious to rearrange someone else's space, but I certainly would find something to dust or such.

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 Aardvark I would care what you did just do something! repot a plant, clean the hall closet something, ANYTHING!

I think the specific tasks you mentioned like organizing the pantry, spice drawer etc are not good examples, b/c how would the au pair even know where to start, how to organize them, etc? There's really not a "standard" for pantry or spice drawer organization.

I definitely think it's reasonable to expect an au pair to take initiative - but that would include things like running the dishwasher, vacuuming, etc. Tasks where there is one obvious way to do them.

If you want the au pair to do other tasks, then I think you might be better served to go over them, and then say, "When you have a free moment, please organize the spice cabinet." then tell her how you'd like it organized. For example, I recently re-organized mine. Baking ingredients on one shelf, herbs on a shelf, blends with salt on another, peppers on another, duplicates in a sealed ziploc bag in the downstairs fridge. THere's no way for somebody else to guess that.

True, I apologize about the pay part. good point. You may already be paying more than the going rate. You would still probably need to let her know exactly what you want done or expect from her. I find if someone lays out exactly what they want me to do, that is more helpful than just saying take initiative. Because then I worry should I organize her linen closet or does she like it how it is? Do I wash the car or does she prefer it washed by professionals? If you just said okay here is a list of things that if you are not busy with the kids you could do, then that would make more sense to me.

Balloon Animal wrote:

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True, I apologize about the pay part. good point. You may already be paying more than the going rate. You would still probably need to let her know exactly what you want done or expect from her. I find if someone lays out exactly what they want me to do, that is more helpful than just saying take initiative. Because then I worry should I organize her linen closet or does she like it how it is? Do I wash the car or does she prefer it washed by professionals? If you just said okay here is a list of things that if you are not busy with the kids you could do, then that would make more sense to me.

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 So in the example above that I gave you cannot possible spell out every activity a person should do but who the hell would use someone's facilities and not clean up around the area.  You cannot have it both ways you can't be a family member and not expect family rules.  I would rip my kids a new A-hole for doing such a lazy thing.  And as an employee she should clean up too.  It is unfathomable. 

-- Edited by Forty-two on Sunday 18th of May 2014 11:16:34 AM

Laying out specific tasks is impossible. That's why it's called initiative.

I know my spice drawer gets messy with spilled spices etc. So, perhaps she could wipe down each bottle, wipe out the drawer and then put everything back the same way? Or clean out the fridge? With 3 kids there is bound to be spills or stickiness. The fridge drawers and shelves need to be washed on a regular basis. You know, regular stuff that needs to be done in a house but is not tackled on a daily basis.

She could organize the youngest child's dressers and clothes. They are always growing out of stuff. Even just sorting out sizes that don't fit anymore. Or wipe down all the toys with soapy water to get rid of sticky finger residue.

There are hundreds of things an au pair can do with an extra 10 hours per week! 42 shouldn't have to provide her with a list!

flan327 wrote:

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ana wrote:

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Laying out specific tasks is impossible. That's why it's called initiative.

I know my spice drawer gets messy with spilled spices etc. So, perhaps she could wipe down each bottle, wipe out the drawer and then put everything back the same way? Or clean out the fridge? With 3 kids there is bound to be spills or stickiness. The fridge drawers and shelves need to be washed on a regular basis. You know, regular stuff that needs to be done in a house but is not tackled on a daily basis.

She could organize the youngest child's dressers and clothes. They are always growing out of stuff. Even just sorting out sizes that don't fit anymore. Or wipe down all the toys with soapy water to get rid of sticky finger residue.

There are hundreds of things an au pair can do with an extra 10 hours per week! 42 shouldn't have to provide her with a list!

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 Maybe it's her first position. Maybe other employers were different.

Cleaning, yes, but I wouldn't reorganize unless I has instructions as to what my employer wanted.

flan

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 Fair point. 

 

Perhaps 42 should let her know she has carte blanche to organize anything in the common areas and TB's bedroom?

I am not her first job but her first au pair job and the fact that in Holland it is hard to fire people does not help. I think for her age she is just lazy as hell and I all try to keep an eye out for that next go round.

Cactus wrote:

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I think it's a question of finding a good match and of having the same expectations and those expectations being communicated. Working in someone's home is not like working in an impersonal space like an office or something and one of the difficult things about it is not knowing what is expected or wanted. Some employers might be micromanagers or more controlling and don't want an employee reorganizing or rearranging things without specific instruction for example- or may not want an au pair doing those things at all.
The examples you gave of not picking up towels or deck chair cushions from the floor are a different issue, of course she should do stuff like that. But that's not the same thing as saying you must find work to fill the whole time for which you are paid.

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 I am not saying she needs to fill work the whole time she is paid.  I am saying I better not have to load the dishwasher , pick up the cushions, or towels. or clean the microwave if you are sitting around on your ass doing nothing.  

One of my first jobs, my employer talked about how he wanted me to "take initiative" and how the files would be better if they were reorganized in a certain way. So I took initiative and re-organized files. Then he yelled at me and I had to put them back the way they were. Multiple similar experiences from different employers have made me wary of taking initiative.

For example, I totally agree with you on the cushions of the outdoor chairs. But on organizing things - I think people probably assume that you, as the home owner, have things organized the way you like them. As somebody's employee, I would try to maintain the current organization of things as I understood them, not re-do them to my liking.

I think that expecting an au pair - a young person in a foreign country away from home - to identify a project in your home and do it without your guidance is just not a fair expectation. I know it seems obvious to you - but it's really not going to be obvious to other people. How is she supposed to discern what you'd like for her to organize and what you want her to leave alone? Frankly, I would NOT appreciate it if somebody took it upon themselves to organize MY spices. I know where they are, because I have organized them in a way that makes sense to me. But if somebody decided to re-organize the linen closet that would be great. But lots of people would have the opposite preference. Or would prefer nobody re-organize their stuff at all.