Invisapeeps 2.0

Evil Stepmother · Guru

RE: I love it here

ana · Senior Member

Exactly ES. When a Chinese friend told me she hated the term Oriental, I never used it again!

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
Jeez Richard.

I can sort of understand the frustration with you and the mods on the other board with your circular reasoning.

If the common opinion is that a word is intrepreted a certain way, perhaps you should acquiese to it?

I'm sure there are a tonne of white people out there that would insist the N word is not racist. And they also would be wrong.

When a person of colour tells you they find the connotation of a particular word or phrase racist, it might behoove you to take that at face value and believe them.

What "circular reasoning"? It's a known fact that there are non-racist usages of the word. That's not "circular reasoning". It's just fact.

About half of the people on the thread (ETA: the thread over on Peeps, a few months ago) said they used/heard it and never connected it to racism... so... "common opinion" kind of favors both sides equally... doesn't it?

And why wouldn't it behoove the person inferring things incorrectly to update their world view? Or is the "person of color" incapable of being wrong... because they are a "person of color"?

-- Edited by RichardInTN on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 07:57:04 PM

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
Just to clarify. Pet peeve of mine.

Indians ARE Asians, what with India being in Asia and all.......

I've met many that respond to being called "Asian" with some variation of "I'm not Asian... I'm Indian"... including the housekeeping family that lives here in the Motel, and the Motel owners... so.. who is right? You? Them? Neither? Both?

I do agree that the Country of India is on the Continent of Asia though...

Balloon Animal · Guru

What EmmDee said

ana · Senior Member

First of all, maybe stop calling people as part of an entire continent as though they are homogeneous?

The motel owner and housekeeping staff are mistaken. If they are from India, they are Asians. It's a fact of geography.

And no, you are incorrect, half of the posters on the other board did NOT agree with you. Quite a few had never thought of it in that context and when it was pointed out, they apologized and said they would refrain from using the word again. You did not. You belaboured the argument, insisting you were right.

And yes, if a person of colour finds a phrase or word racist. STOP using it! Or is that too hard?

You as a white man has no context from which to compare.

As a child of the world, with extensive travel under my belt, I can tell you my world view is quite fine and willing to be changed by rational, reasonable discussion. This does not fill that criteria for me. It appears that your world view might be lacking though.

But, carry on, as you will and must. I know you will never, ever agree or let this go so I will. And the people on this board can decide for themselves if you are a racist or not. (Since you can't control what people think, nor do you care)

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
First of all, maybe stop calling people as part of an entire continent as though they are homogeneous?

The motel owner and housekeeping staff are mistaken. If they are from India, they are Asians. It's a fact of geography.

And no, you are incorrect, half of the posters on the other board did NOT agree with you. Quite a few had never thought of it in that context and when it was pointed out, they apologized and said they would refrain from using the word again. You did not. You belaboured the argument, insisting you were right.

And yes, if a person of colour finds a phrase or word racist. STOP using it! Or is that too hard?

You as a white man has no context from which to compare.

As a child of the world, with extensive travel under my belt, I can tell you my world view is quite fine and willing to be changed by rational, reasonable discussion. This does not fill that criteria for me. It appears that your world view might be lacking though.

But, carry on, as you will and must. I know you will never, ever agree or let this go so I will. And the people on this board can decide for themselves if you are a racist or not. (Since you can't control what people think, nor do you care)

Since the Motel owners and housekeepers are from India (the Country)... they can call themselves "Indian" if they like. Geographically they are from India. That's a "fact of geography" as well.

I guess you know better than they do where they are from though... and what they should be called... huh?

My world view is also quite fine (and forward looking). I look forward to the day when race and gender play no part in ANYTHING... and I will continue to comport myself as if they don't (especially when they don't)... because that's the only way to make the future BE that way.

winds55 · Guru

If you truly believe that last paragraph, Richard, you are a fool.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

I prefer the term optimistic.

Most optimists are considered fools... until their optimism proves to be true. Hopefully, mine will prove to be true some day.

Oh My Stars · Newbie

I pop in here once in a while to try and keep up with Des and other peeps I miss, but I can't leave this thread un-commented on.

Uppity is a sucktastic word, no matter if you mean it to put down a person that has a different skin pigmentation than you do or not. It makes the one who actually spoke the word out loud look like a douche, no matter what the context you intended it to be spoken in.

Who the F are you (G) to decree that someone is 'acting above their station'? Who the F are you to determine what any other person's 'station' is?

The fact that you would use that term at all confirms that you are a very small person who tries to raise themself up by standing on others. People of value are raised up by others - they don't need (or want) to stand on the backs of others.

Use the word at your own peril. The good people of the world will judge you for it, and you will come out lacking.

ana · Senior Member

Sigh. Of course they call themselves Indian, because they are. But they are also Asians. Please don't be obtuse on purpose.

However the day that race and gender play no part in anything has not come to pass. And being a female minority I would know. Unlike you, the white privileged male.

Wishing for something does not change the world. For those of us that face hurdles on a daily basis, we thank you for your positive thoughts. I'm sure any day now, racism and sexism will be washed off the face of the earth. You keep on blowing sunshine and wearing your rose-coloured glasses.

And use any word you want that you think is not racist and we will think what we will of that. I'm sure you telling people that something is NOT racist is all that it will take for everyone to look up and agree that you MUST have the superior intellect. After all, the white man did say it was a fact!

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
Sigh. Of course they call themselves Indian, because they are. But they are also Asians. Please don't be obtuse on purpose.

How is taking them at their word "being obtuse"? They are the Indians that have stated a preference to be called Indian. You say that they are wrong and that they do not know what/who they are. I believe that they might know themselves just a little better than either of us.

ana · Senior Member

I did not comment on their preference, just on the assertion that they would insist they were not Asian. I highly doubt they did that.

Everyone can have their own preference.

Really. I cannot believe I had to type that out.

-- Edited by ana on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 10:10:46 PM

Forty-two · Guru

RichardInTN wrote:
ana wrote:
Jeez Richard.

I can sort of understand the frustration with you and the mods on the other board with your circular reasoning.

If the common opinion is that a word is intrepreted a certain way, perhaps you should acquiese to it?

I'm sure there are a tonne of white people out there that would insist the N word is not racist. And they also would be wrong.

When a person of colour tells you they find the connotation of a particular word or phrase racist, it might behoove you to take that at face value and believe them.
What "circular reasoning"? It's a known fact that there are non-racist usages of the word. That's not "circular reasoning". It's just fact.
About half of the people on the thread (ETA: the thread over on Peeps, a few months ago) said they used/heard it and never connected it to racism... so... "common opinion" kind of favors both sides equally... doesn't it?
And why wouldn't it behoove the person inferring things incorrectly to update their world view? Or is the "person of color" incapable of being wrong... because they are a "person of color"?

-- Edited by RichardInTN on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 07:57:04 PM

Ok this is the craziest thing I have ever seen written, I think YOU referring to me as uppity is racist.

World view....You a man who has mentioned on another thread your profoundly limited world travel are going to tell me, a person who has traveled outside this country more this year than you have in your whole freakin life, married to a foreigner, worked for more than 20 years in international companies, managed a half a billion dollar global business, had to add pages to a my two-year old passport due to so much travel are going to tell me I need to update my world view? Are you serious? Really? Really?

-- Edited by Forty-two on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 10:55:24 PM

Grand Poohbah of Peepdom · All hail the Grand Poohbah, and nobody gets hurt!

It's getting a little heated in here, folks. Let's keep it civil.

Balloon Animal · Guru

RichardInTN wrote:
ana wrote:
Sigh. Of course they call themselves Indian, because they are. But they are also Asians. Please don't be obtuse on purpose.
How is taking them at their word "being obtuse"? They are the Indians that have stated a preference to be called Indian. You say that they are wrong and that they do not know what/who they are. I believe that they might know themselves just a little better than either of us.

To be fair I know lots of Asian Indians who prefer to be called "Indians".

Forty-two · Guru

ana wrote:
I did not comment on their preference, just on the assertion that they would insist they were not Asian. I highly doubt they did that.
Everyone can have their own preference.

Really. I cannot believe I had to type that out.

-- Edited by ana on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 10:10:46 PM

The fact that you had to write that is just stupid. That's like my Korean friend insisting that he is not Asian.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

ana wrote:
I did not comment on their preference, just on the assertion that they would insist they were not Asian. I highly doubt they did that.
Everyone can have their own preference.

Really. I cannot believe I had to type that out.

-- Edited by ana on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 10:10:46 PM

You can "highly doubt they did that" all you want. Doesn't make it any less true that they DID do it.

I cannot believe you felt the need to type that out... considering how you have been jumping on me over BS. I guess you feel that you are more right than anyone else though.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
ana wrote:
Jeez Richard.

I can sort of understand the frustration with you and the mods on the other board with your circular reasoning.

If the common opinion is that a word is intrepreted a certain way, perhaps you should acquiese to it?

I'm sure there are a tonne of white people out there that would insist the N word is not racist. And they also would be wrong.

When a person of colour tells you they find the connotation of a particular word or phrase racist, it might behoove you to take that at face value and believe them.
What "circular reasoning"? It's a known fact that there are non-racist usages of the word. That's not "circular reasoning". It's just fact.
About half of the people on the thread (ETA: the thread over on Peeps, a few months ago) said they used/heard it and never connected it to racism... so... "common opinion" kind of favors both sides equally... doesn't it?
And why wouldn't it behoove the person inferring things incorrectly to update their world view? Or is the "person of color" incapable of being wrong... because they are a "person of color"?

-- Edited by RichardInTN on Wednesday 21st of May 2014 07:57:04 PM
Ok this is the craziest thing I have ever seen written, I think YOU referring to me as uppity is racist.

World view....You a man who has mentioned on another thread your profoundly limited world travel are going to tell me, a person who has traveled outside this country more this year than you have in you whole freakin life, married to a foreigner, worked for more than 20 years in international companies, managed a half a billion dollar global business, had to add pages to a my two-year old passport due to so much travel are going to tell me I need to update my world view? Are you serious? Really? Really?

Believe that all you want. You are wrong. But you are free to be wrong about anything you want to be.

And "world view" wasn't referring to "places one has been" but that fact that the world doesn't revolve around any one individual in particular. Include in your "world view" that others exist, and may have differing opinions than you... many of which have just as much merit as yours.

Forty-two · Guru

Yes I am fully aware that racists have different views than I do.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Balloon Animal wrote:
RichardInTN wrote:
ana wrote:
Sigh. Of course they call themselves Indian, because they are. But they are also Asians. Please don't be obtuse on purpose.
How is taking them at their word "being obtuse"? They are the Indians that have stated a preference to be called Indian. You say that they are wrong and that they do not know what/who they are. I believe that they might know themselves just a little better than either of us.
To be fair I know lots of Asian Indians who prefer to be called "Indians".

They don't count apparently... because they don't agree with ana...

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
Yes I am fully aware that racists have different views than I do.

Are you aware that non-racists (such as myself) do too?

Or is everyone that doesn't agree with you a racist?

Forty-two · Guru

No just the white ones who think calling a black person uppity is not racist.

RichardInTN · I believe in I.D.I.C.

Forty-two wrote:
No just the white ones who think calling a black person uppity is not racist.

Whatever. Keep telling yourself that. As I very clearly pointed out... the color of the person is irrelevant in my usage of the word. Go ahead and continue to play the victim if you like though.